MicroWave

Airbnb bookings dry up in New York as new short-stay rules are introduced

https://lemmy.world/post/4546308

Airbnb bookings dry up in New York as new short-stay rules are introduced - Lemmy.world

Under the new restrictions, short-term renters will need to register with the city and must be present in the home for the duration of the rental Home-sharing company Airbnb said it had to stop accepting some reservations in New York City after new regulations on short-term rentals went into effect. The new rules are intended to effectively end a free-for-all in which landlords and residents have been renting out their apartments by the week or the night to tourists or others in the city for short stays. Advocates say the practice has driven a rise in demand for housing in already scarce neighbourhoods in the city. Under the new system, rentals shorter than 30 days are only allowed if hosts register with the city. Hosts must also commit to being physically present in the home for the duration of the rental, sharing living quarters with their guest. More than two guests at a time are not allowed, either, meaning families are effectively barred.

Sep 6, 2023 at 10:42amWeb
Show threadRagnarokOnlineSep 6, 2023

I don’t know how I feel about this. On one hand: I dislike the trend of commercial companies buying up living space to turn around and rent it out to disruptive short-term tenants.

On the other hand: I don’t want to have anyone else present in my rental with me because that’s creepy.

Show threadEjh3kSep 6, 2023
That’s the point.
Show threadNOT_RICKSep 6, 2023
They want you back in a hotel
Show threadShalakushkaSep 6, 2023
I want them back in a hotel too.
Show threadkrellorSep 6, 2023
They are trying to address housing shortages. The hotels might benefit, but so does everyone else because it effectively bars commercial operation of AirBnB. No landlords with 50 units etc.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
This will not actually help with the housing shortage.
Show threadkrellorSep 6, 2023
That is still allowed though. The host can rent out a spare room with up to 2 guests at a time. The host just has to live there.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

Under the new system, rentals shorter than 30 days are only allowed if hosts register with the city.

Show threadarchomrade [he/him]Sep 6, 2023
From what I can tell this is to help make sure they follow the new rules
Show threadConcettaSep 6, 2023
Oh my god, you have to register with the city, like every other landlord? Crazy.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
Yes and this requires additional restrictions on the property that many people flat-out cannot afford.
Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023
Like what, exactly? If you can’t afford a fire alarm or sprinkler system, you really shouldn’t be running a rental business. Hell, if you can’t afford a fire alarm, you have much bigger problems than whether or not you can rent a room to a stranger.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
You aren’t running a rental business in these cases, but supplementing your income by allowing someone into your home a few times per year.
Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023

…which makes you a business. You’re making income from rentals. A landlord who has 500 units but can’t seem to fill them but once or twice per year for a weekend doesn’t suddenly stop being a landlord. And if he/she told me “I’m just supplementing my income” in order to get around installing fire alarms, I’d laugh in their face.

If you’re providing a commercial service to strangers, you should be able to ensure their safety, full stop. If you can’t afford to do that, you cannot afford to provide the commercial service.

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
I find it so weird that your take is “only the wealthy deserve a home, period.” Like that’s such a hellish thing to say.
Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023
What a cockamamie take! We’re not kicking these people out of their homes by forcing them to follow simple rules to ensure they don’t burn families of random strangers in a raging inferno. They’re still free to…y’know…have and live in their home.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
… that they can’t afford.
Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023

By your exact same logic, if someone is making and selling meth out of their home in order to make supplemental income and bridge payment gaps, then by telling them to stop we’re effectively telling them “only the wealthy deserve a home, period.”

*Meth dealer: "But I can't afford my home without it!"* *Me: "Um, tough shit. Stop it."*

Is “people can’t afford to live” your “get out of jail free” card?

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

It is when the decision being made negatively impacts housing availability.

Lots of people on this site are radicals in one way or another and my radicalization is zoning policy and the housing market disruption is has caused.

Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023
So people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it helps them pay rent, because them making rental payments ipso facto impacts housing availability?
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

No, because it turns out there is a whole spectrum of regulation that is possible, and some regulations are more oppressive than others.

Same basic principle as hair stylists in the US needing more schooling than police.

Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023
Well given that AirBnB availability inflates property values (2, 3, 4), increases rental rates (2), and decreases the availability of long-term rental units (2), I’m comfortable with big cities severely curtailing them in order to improve housing affordability and reduce pressure on low income renters. Whether they will couple that restriction with zoning relaxations that increase homebuilding and density is another matter altogether and something for them to discuss in the future.
Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023
Oppressive regulations such as fire safety compliance?
Show threadbrygphilomenaSep 6, 2023

Should a hair stylist require schooling and training? Yes, they put caustic chemicals on people’s heads which can cause sever harm.

Should police have more training? Yes.

This isn’t a good argument because the lack of police training has no bearing on the licensing and training of hair stylists.

Here’s the take you are trying to get people to say, if you cannot afford to own a home without supplementing income by provided room rentals which are potentially unsafe and do not meet the bare minimum of fire code, then you cannot afford that house. It doesn’t mean you don’t afford a house. Just that you cannot afford THAT house. And I make no mention of “deserve housing” because all humans deserve housing.

Putting people’s lives at risk to make a few extra dollars is unacceptable. You have no right to gamble with other people’s lives.

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
Except people’s lives aren’t at risk because it’s not like we’ve seen a rush of AirBnB deaths that caused this shift.
Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023

I don’t think that’s an ideal analogy. No-one sells meth legally.

It’s more like selling people food prepared in your uninspected and potentially unsanitary kitchen, and complaining about being told to comply with the food hygiene regulations that every licensed business is required to adhere to.

Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023

I find this viewpoint fascinating. Like arguing that trying to put out a burning building will hurt poor people trying to keep warm.

The housing market as a whole is the problem, one which AirBnB is exacerbating. That it locally enriches those renters able to find people willing to rent out their homes – which I’m guessing is disproportionately going to be people without elderly family members & kids – doesn’t mean it isn’t detrimental to the housing market as a whole, particularly at the lower end, and to everyone who rents.

Show threadfenynroSep 6, 2023

If they can’t afford to sit on multiple empty houses due to increased AirBnB regulations, then they can always sell some of those assets back into the market. In fact, that’s the point of the regulation :P

The idea of some poor landlord barely scraping things together because their 50 rental properties (and thus millions of dollars worth of assets) are less profitable is preposterous

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
The idea is that a negligible amount of renters pad their rental income with AirBnB and are not actually landlords.
Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023
Are you, by any chance, padding your income by subletting your rental home on AirBnB?
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
No. I own my own home and my mortgage costs less than average rent here, while my home has more than doubled in value, and I am sickened by that.
Show threadDjtechaSep 6, 2023
Because of systems like Airbnb adding to the scarcity. Do you not see that?
Show threadmrnotoriousmanSep 6, 2023
Judging by how hard they are attacking this thread (seriously like half the comments are them), I am going to say yes. I don't believe them denying it.
Show threadConcettaSep 6, 2023
If you can afford to run a business you can afford to run a business properly.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

Not if onerous regulations designed to solve problems that don’t exist are placed in your way by populist idiot laws.

Theoretically, any business could be legislated out of existence maliciously.

Show threadbrygphilomenaSep 6, 2023
How is following basic fire code onerous?
Show threadkrellorSep 6, 2023
So they register? There isn't anything to indicate that hosts who plan to rent out a spare room and follow the rules won't be approved.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
When you register, you must comply with hotel-level standards.
Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023

Units made available as short-term rentals must also abide by building and fire codes, including one that prohibits placing locks between rooms and having certain sprinkler and fire alarm systems on the property.

The horror.

bloomberg.com/…/airbnb-s-new-nyc-regulations-what…

Airbnb’s New NYC Regulations: What Renters and Hosts Need to Know

Starting Sept. 5, it became much harder to book an Airbnb rental in New York City. That’s because new rules took effect that require all hosts to register with the city, ensuring their listings comply with strict rules on occupancy and building codes. After years of sparring with the city and a failed lawsuit earlier this year, Airbnb has run out of options and is expected to lose thousands of listings in one of its biggest markets.

Bloomberg
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

This effectively blocks struggling renters from using ABNB to bridge their payment gaps.

Yes, I think people being evicted over this policy would agree with the statement “the horror”

Show threadmerridewSep 6, 2023

Growth in home-sharing through Airbnb contributes to about one-fifth of the average annual increase in U.S. rents and about one-seventh of the average annual increase in U.S. housing prices.

Those struggling renters might not be struggling so much if other people renting out their apartments on AirBnB weren’t pushing up their rent by an extra 20%.

Housing markets have problems. AirBnB is not a responsible solution to those problems.

hbr.org/…/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-city…

Research: When Airbnb Listings in a City Increase, So Do Rent Prices

Airbnb has listings for millions of properties around the world, but what does its popularity mean for the cities it operates in? According to a new study, it leads to an increase in rents. The authors examined zip code–level data on rent prices and demographic data across the U.S. Controlling for a number of factors, they found that as the number of Airbnb listings in a city increases, local rent prices do, too.

Harvard Business Review
Show threadRubberElectronsSep 6, 2023

As mentioned previously, then they shouldn’t be housing others. You spend a small sum of money to make money, when I worked for the city of new York, all us engineers knew the saying, “regulations are written in blood” because NYC was one of the first cities to experiment with new housing methods and such.

I wasn’t alive for the triangle waistcoat factory disaster. Will I learn from it? Yes. Will I force others to learn from it and protect innocent people around them? Also yes. Fire does not care about your class or situation, they happen and the steps to being protected are necessary.

Show threadBlooperSep 6, 2023
If a person has extra rooms and can barely afford rent, they are occupying a unit that doesn’t fit their needs. They would be better served by downsizing to a smaller, more affordable place instead of heaping their financial problems onto the rest of society. Alternatively they could sublet the room(s) which would better serve their community instead of catering to tourists.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
I’ll be sure to remind everyone who gets evicted about this.
Show threadkrellorSep 6, 2023

I went and looked up the regulations.

https://rules.cityofnewyork.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/FINAL-RULES-GOVERNING-REGISTRATION-AND-REQUIREMENTS-FOR-SHORT-TERM-RENTALS-1.pdf

Host requirements start on the bottom of page 16. The requirements boil down to posting a fire exit diagram of the unit, keeping records, and not violating building or fire codes. Nothing in there that really seems that onerous, and is stuff that obviously protects the guests.

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023

not violating building or fire codes

This requires personal investment from people over something they nominally may not have the means or ability to change or influence.

Show threadDjtechaSep 6, 2023
So guests should just burn then? Like we have regulations because people died before said regulations.
Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
I’m sorry was there a rush of ABNB fires I haven’t heard about or is this a total non-issue
Show threadBlackbeardSep 6, 2023

Oh look, here’s a list of fires that happened in buildings with short-term rentals, where egress, fire alarms, and sprinkler systems saved actual lives…

ny1.com/…/fdny-investigates-fire-at-ues-luxury-ho…

www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/…/4120852/

cbsnews.com/…/fire-prompts-evacuation-of-park-lan…

cbsnews.com/…/midtown-hotel-evacuated-amtrak-fire…

nypost.com/…/rooftop-fire-erupts-at-exclusive-cas…

www.nytimes.com/2019/…/fire-hotel-manhattan.html

independent.co.uk/…/fire-injures-seven-manhattan-…

fireengineering.com/…/16-alarm-fire-brooklyn-new-…

Who’da thunk it?!?! Do you enjoy playing dumb?

Show threadSCBSep 6, 2023
These are all hotel fires lol.
Show threadBlackbeardSep 7, 2023

Short term rental fires, yes. Which proves that…short term rentals do occasionally go up in flames with renters inside.

You don’t win any awards with those powers of observation there, do ya champ?

Show threadDjtechaSep 7, 2023
Yea you’re not really arguing in good faith here. You know fires happen and the lack of basic alerting systems is a concern. These regulations aren’t costing folks 10 grand to do. There is a cost of doing business and New York has stated this is that cost. Take it up with your state assembly if you don’t like it.
Show threadSCBSep 7, 2023

It is quite firmly my stance that none of the people barking up this “fire bad” tree are engaging in good faith at all, since none of these AirBnBs demonstrate undue risk worthy of their own fire code ordinances

Asking a person to install their own fire door to rent a room out is absurd.

Show threadthoroSep 6, 2023
Then I guess they shouldn’t be opening living spaces to other people for commercial purposes. Almost like doing that implies you have a responsibility to your guests
Show threadRubberElectronsSep 6, 2023
Fire doesn’t care about limp excuses.
Show threadPoobSep 6, 2023
Good?
Show threadSatansMaggotyCumFartSep 6, 2023

If those hypothetical people lose their investment houses then other people can buy them.

To live in.

Show threadstigmataSep 6, 2023
People who aren’t living in their home will lose the home to eviction? Listen to my violin.
Show threadjoel_feilaSep 6, 2023
Really to drop housing prices you have to address the secondary mortgage market. More supply is a band aid.
Show threadli10Sep 6, 2023

Yes, where they should be.

If you’re travelling somewhere then stay in a hotel, it’s what they’re for.