pnutzh4x0rAug 30, 2023

Linux 6.6 To Better Protect Against The Illicit Behavior Of NVIDIA's Proprietary Driver

https://lemmy.ndlug.org/post/135674

Linux 6.6 To Better Protect Against The Illicit Behavior Of NVIDIA's Proprietary Driver - NDLUG

> Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA’s proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA’s default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author’s intent. > Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023
I get why the Linux folks are doing this, but I don’t expect that it will make them popular with anyone who actually uses Nvidia drivers on Linux (which is a lot of people). I’m sure that my employer will choose up-to-date Nvidia drivers over up-to-date versions of the kernel, at least in the short term. In the long term it probably won’t be an issue since Nvidia will figure something out, but if it did become an issue then ultimately Nvidia drivers support is non-negotiable for the company where I work.
Show threadwithabeardAug 30, 2023

don’t expect that it will make them popular with anyone who actually uses Nvidia drivers on Linux

The group to be annoyed at are Nvidia. Plain and simple.

Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023
From my closed-source corporate perspective, Nvidia is trying to improve performance and the Linux kernel maintainers are trying to stop them. I don’t see why I would be annoyed at Nvidia in these circumstances.
Show threadSethayyAug 30, 2023
Via breaking the law. Which in a reasonable system would push people away from participating
Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023

I did say that I get why the Linux folks are doing this. The problem is that Nvidia drivers that obey these restrictions and as a result have significantly worse performance than Nvidia drivers on other operating systems aren’t the solution either. Anyone who does serious GPU computing will still have to switch away from Linux.

(IMO Nvidia would be insane to open-source their drivers. Like sue-corporate-officers-for-breach-of-duty level insane. So they can’t do more than what they’re already doing: coming up with workarounds.)

Show threadNocturnalMorningAug 30, 2023
Would they though? They sell their hardware, not their drivers, or am I misunderstanding something about Nvidia?
Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023
Of course I can’t know for sure because the driver is closed-source, but I’d bet that a lot of what makes Nvidia hardware work fast is actually in the driver rather than the hardware itself. Plus, a proprietary driver lets them lock people in to buying their hardware. The company where I work doesn’t use Nvidia software because it buys Nvidia GPUs. It buys Nvidia GPUs because it uses Nvidia software.
Show threadMazonnaCara89
Oh yes sure, the software make nvidia gpu better, something that probably most of the hundred if not thousand of contributor to the mesa driver and in the list we have amd, intel, collabora, redhat, nouveau, google, valve and many others, they were the only one in the entire silicon valley to find this secret sauce to make gpus better with software.
Aug 30, 2023 at 4:41pmWeb
Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023
Yes? I’m not saying Mesa as a whole is bad, but Mesa+Nouveau for Nvidia cards is terrible.
Show threadMazonnaCara89Aug 30, 2023

Mesa+Nouveau is bad only thanks to nvidia and their signature lock implemented since the 900 series, as even stated by me before:

the open source nvidia driver it’s not able to re-clock the gpu with an higher clock than the boot one (and trust me it’s a really low clock) and you are not able to use a quarter of the power the gpu has.

Even if the open source driver code is 100% equals the nvidia one, literally copy pasted, it would not work because it need to be signed by nvidia to do so.

Show threadArbitraryValueAug 30, 2023
You’ve convinced me. I still think that secret optimizations are a possibility, but I must concede that there might very well be this sort of lock-in bullshit and nothing else.