MicroWaveAug 28, 2023

Pope says 'backward' US conservatives replaced faith with ideology

https://lemmy.world/post/4013746

Pope says 'backward' US conservatives replaced faith with ideology - Lemmy.world

Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time. Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time. Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

Show thread😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈
Religion is the biggest scourge against humans. Controlling behavior, brainwashing the young and stolen untold trillions of $$. Fuck religion. They all need to be labeled as cults and treated as harshly.
Aug 28, 2023 at 11:42pmWeb
Show thread【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】Aug 28, 2023
I would settle for taxing them.
Show threadChewTigerAug 29, 2023
Would definitely be a step in the right direction. I’d even be ok with exceptions for the tiny churches in small towns.
Show threadafraid_of_zombiesAug 29, 2023
I agree but only because they tend to have budgets so small that they aren’t worth taxing.
Show threadAA5BAug 29, 2023

At the risk of interrupting the circlejerk here, most churches have tiny budgets that aren’t worth taxing. The other side of that is the established ones sit on land in the center of towns that has been in their hands for decades or centuries: they may not be able to afford the property taxes.

On the other hand, if you were thinking of modern televangelists, by all means tax their income. I don’t know where to draw the line and it’s pro a lay good to be conservative about it, but some of these people really seem to have crossed it already

Show threadRailing5132Aug 29, 2023

I think a better option would be stripping the tax exempt status from the ones that politik from the pulpit. Actually enforce the law we have now instead of being afraid of looking like we’re persecuting them. Hell, they all have that complex already anyway.

Taxing them all would just open the floodgates.

Show threadFlashMobOfOneAug 29, 2023

Taxing them all would just open the floodgates.

You say that as if it’s a bad thing.

These assholes should deal with a real flood for once.

Show threadsanpedropeddlerAug 29, 2023
I dont think the churches that just sit and read a book are really deserving of a “flood”. I also wouldn’t call taxes a flood though, so I’m not opposed to that.
Show threadatempuser23Aug 29, 2023

It’s very inline with the church’s teaching to pay taxes.

Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and give to God the things that are God’s.” The men were amazed at what Jesus said.

There is no religious conflict at all with taxing churches.

Show threadsanpedropeddlerAug 29, 2023

There is no religious conflict at all with taxing churches.

You gave one example for one religion. I don’t necessarily think taxing churches is a bad idea, but I don’t think that’s a great argument for it.

Show threadatempuser23Aug 30, 2023

This is in a thread about a sect of Christianity. I am not aware of another religion that uses the word church. The dictionary definition is christian house of worship. Jewish Synagogue. Islamic Mosque. Hindu Temple. Norse Hof. Greek and Roman temples.

Talking about taxing churches is about a tax on Christian houses of worship. There is no Christian religious rule against it, which means that it would be a stretch for anyone to claim that the government is violating the first amendment.

Show threadsanpedropeddlerAug 30, 2023
I assumed you meant churches as all places of worship. If you meant you want to only tax Christians, then I completely disagree with you.
Show threadiegodAug 30, 2023
Not good enough. They need to strip that status even from the ones that don’t.
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023
If you allow taxing churches you open the door for Republicans to just tax every church they disagree with, and I’m pretty sure you can figure out how that will go.
Show threadafraid_of_zombiesAug 29, 2023
Oh the horror
Show threadQHCAug 29, 2023
I don’t understand the problem.
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023

The problem is there will still be untaxed churches and all of those churches will be evangelical churches that promote the Republican party.

All the others will be taxed out of existence.

Show thread🇸‌🇵‌🇪‌🇨‌🇺‌🇱‌🇦‌🇹‌🇪‌🇷‌Aug 29, 2023
I believe the intent of the first comment was all churches would be taxed.
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023
That’s just not how government works in practice, however.
Show threadPotatofishAug 29, 2023
Tell me more about how taxing churches works
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023

You are aware that the entire reason taxing churches was a big deal in the 18th century is that we’ve already seen what happens when taxing churches is made political, right?

Like you’re not just popping off about shit with historical precedence, in a situation in which it is laughably easy to predict what a certain party would do with this power, without knowing the history behind this, right?

Show threadPotatofishAug 29, 2023
Hello tax historian. Surely we can do laws better than taxation in the 18th century. Tax churches.
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023
I’d love to think so but here we are banning books and shit.
Show threadthe post of tom joadAug 29, 2023
While true, how the us government works in practice currently cannot be a barrier for ideas. I mean that it isn’t working at all
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023

I’d argue being a policy realist is an absolute necessity, rather than a “barrier for ideas.”

I am a volunteer climate lobbyist in a deeply red constituency, so I very much live a life bound by practicality.

My rep I lobby most often has solar panels and drives an EV and votes against climate change proposals unless we can sell them as “job creation” so he can sell them to his constituents.

The messy details absolutely take precedence over what we’d like.

Show threadChewTigerAug 29, 2023

IDK, if we’re comparing scourges against humanity I’d say “the rich” in general are worse, be they kings, CEOs, religious icons, politicians, or whatever. Their pursuit of money and the power to keep that money corrupts everything. They ruin everything from companies to countries and even religions (makes them even worse).

Really though, the most evil thing is cancer. It kills indiscriminately and tortures its victims the whole way. Even if you win, you never get the peace of knowing it’s truly gone. True evil.

Show threadineedaunion Aug 29, 2023
Hitler bent the knee to the Roman Catholics. Nuff said.
Show threadFlashMobOfOneAug 29, 2023

100%

And the Catholics were cool with him.

Show threadineedaunion Aug 29, 2023
Look at how much hate we’re getting. All of my posts about corporatism and GOP spouting nonsense getting blasted. This place is another spot for GOP, facism and the church to have a voice in the form of bots.
Show threadHardNutAug 29, 2023

I’d have a hard time believing that Hitler was super cool with the people who worship a Jew as a god.

Hitler in his table talks: “The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science … Gradually the myths crumble. All that is left to prove that nature there is no frontier between the organic and inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light, but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”

Good rule of thumb is to never underestimate Hitler’s ability to hate a group of people lol

Show threadineedaunion Aug 29, 2023
Don’t have a hard time believing it. Christianity has indoctrinated most into believing Jesus was white. Just look at all these southern baptist molesters that want Trump as their new god.
Show threadHardNutAug 29, 2023
I’m sorry, I’m genuinely not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying that because you believe Christian propaganda to be that powerful, you’re ready to believe that Hitler also fell for the same propaganda? I get why you’re ready to make that assumption, but I don’t think choosing to believe an assumption made out of heavy bias is appropriate in the face of evidence directly to the contrary. Hitler outright condemned the belief more than once
Show threadineedaunion Aug 30, 2023
I didn’t say that at all. I’m saying Christianity isn’t about God. It’s about power, slavery, money, pedophilia. Same as with the elite now. Hitler was just a part of it. It’s all a big club.
Show threadCeeBeeAug 29, 2023
Hitler also loved dogs. So not sure there’s anything to that.
Show threadineedaunion Aug 30, 2023
Pedo apologist.
Show threadCeeBeeAug 30, 2023
Nice strawman
Show threadFlashMobOfOneAug 29, 2023

Really though, the most evil thing is cancer

Another reason why, if God exists at all, they’re not worth a penny of my income or a moment of my time.

Show threadthe post of tom joadAug 29, 2023
Yuh if we’re gonna go that deep, the rock are responsible for the deep corruption running thru society, across all society’s ills around the world. I agree that american religion’s descent into facism-promotion is a symptom of that rather than a driving force.
Show threadgowanAug 29, 2023
And yet a lot of people are still religious so if you’re running around suggesting destroying the thing they love and feel positive about you might find they are unwilling to listen to anything you have to say. Right now I really would rather we focus on collective action over the climate than worry about whose version of faith is correct.
Show threadikeAug 29, 2023
When this sorry undeserving species is all dead. Alien archaeologists will learn how religion was the biggest, most successful device used by the powerful to appease the poor and keep their interests driving everything (including destroying the habitability of the planet for short term luxury), from the early civilizations until the very end. Then they will find your comment on an HDD and fucking laugh at you, at all of our stupid asses.
Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023
Edgy enough to qualify as AtheistPosting but unfortunately too silly to be fun.
Show threadeestileibAug 29, 2023

------ian doomsday fantasy is one of the major drivers of climate change. They have always viewed the world as disposable, indeed, the sooner disposed the better.

What middle ground is there?

Show threadgowanAug 29, 2023

I reject that premise entirely.

Maybe anti-religious people need to make an effort to understand how to better communicate their views as frankly many cone across as the same as bigots do.

Show threadthe post of tom joadAug 29, 2023

I dunno if it’s actually possible (for me) to be honest and communicate evenly with the faithful. I cannot see their beliefs as anything other than wishful thinking and fantasy.

Not to say the religious are stupid, i don’t believe in binary smart/stupid in most cases. I know some very intelligent religious folks who have what i consider at best a blind spot for their belief.

I frankly believe it to be impossible. Any discussion where one side has “faith” to fall back on and calls poking holes in religion as an attack on that faith is gated to fail before you start

Show threadgowanAug 29, 2023
Don’t talk about their faith then. Talk about what needs to be done and if a member of an Abrahamic faith asks why remind them it’s what God told Adam to do. Genesis makes it clear humanity is to tend the earth not exterminate all life on it.
Show threadthe post of tom joadAug 29, 2023
Well that is a good point. I’m not well versed in the Bible however, and i would hesitate to quote it even if i were. how would it sound to someone faithful to have someone without, quoting their faith at them? It would further require my reading the Bible with the express purpose of busting their chops, which wouldn’t feel good to me.
Show threadgowanAug 29, 2023
It’s literally in the first book of Genesis. Takes about 4 minutes to read
Show threadthe post of tom joadAug 29, 2023

But

how would it sound to someone faithful to have someone without, quoting their faith at them? It would further require my reading the Bible with the express purpose of busting their chops, which wouldn’t feel good to me.

Show threadgowanAug 30, 2023
You don’t need to quote exactly you just ask what God tasked Adam with.
Show threadvettnerkAug 29, 2023
“Cult” is just something the big congregation calls the small congregation.
Show threadSolarMechAug 29, 2023

There’s a whole list of 8 points over what constitute a cult.

I don’t remember the whole thing, but it was something like : Cults don’t let you leave. If you do leave, your family and friends who are still in the cult will not speak to you. Cults control you in details. They make sure you are tired at the end of the day, too tired to think for yourself. Cults make you dependent financially. Once you are that deep in, leaving means starting over economically.

There’s more, but it is different from how most people experience mainstream religions (I mean there are pockets here and there that are very cultish, but really the religion as a whole is a different beast that just works differently than an actual cult).

Show threadeestileibAug 29, 2023
Tell me more about how you’ve never been in a church in the south.
Show threadsanpedropeddlerAug 29, 2023
I’ve been to multiple churches in the south, like everywhere some are better some are worse.
Show threadFlashMobOfOneAug 29, 2023

Agreed.

I’ll gain an iota of respect for Frankie and Catholics when they unilaterally decide to stop donating money to this church until they purge all of the child rapists and reform their teachings on confessions so child rapists are no longer protected.

Show threadSCBAug 29, 2023
You think the Pope donates money to the church?
Show threadArcherAug 29, 2023

“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

We’re doing pretty good on the king front, let’s work on the priests a bit

Show threadMonkRomeAug 30, 2023
We’ve just changed the form of monarchal feudalism, it’s still very much alive. Just disguised as CEOs and Presidents in our present oligarchy. But they might as well be kings and queens. And an enormous amount of those people still manipulate religion as a means to holding on to power. We are a long way from strangling our last king or priest.
Show threadApexHunterAug 29, 2023
Religion, at its core, is basically rules that state “don’t be a dick.” Unfortunately, all of the dicks didn’t get the message.
Show threadComment105Aug 29, 2023

It’s not "don’t be a dick’.

It’s “do as we want you to do”

Plenty of the rules are “be a dick, like this:”

Plenty of the rules are “don’t do this objectively harmless thing”

Plenty of the rulez are “do this ridiculously pointless thing”

Show threadApexHunterAug 29, 2023
Yes, modern religion has many rules made by the dicks once they took over. Before the dicks rules were things like don’t steal shit, don’t fuck your neighbor’s wife, don’t murder people, don’t lie about shit, etc. The dicks were so bad that some other guy had to come along and say “seriously guys, stop being dicks”. But the dicks didn’t like that so they killed him.
Show threadLrdThndrAug 29, 2023
Phallus 6:9 - And lo’ the Lord said unto Clitoris, “Be thou not a dick by thine actions, nor by thy words, nor by thy thoughts.”