ProotjeAug 27, 2023
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Women working in Antarctica say they were left to fend for themselves against sexual harassers

https://lemmy.world/post/3946173

Women working in Antarctica say they were left to fend for themselves against sexual harassers - Lemmy.world

The National Science Foundation, the federal agency that oversees the U.S. Antarctic Program, published a report in 2022 in which 59% of women said they’d experienced harassment or assault while on the ice, and 72% of women said such behavior was a problem in Antarctica. But the problem goes beyond the harassment, The Associated Press found. In reviewing court records and internal communications, and in interviews with more than a dozen current and former employees, the AP uncovered a pattern of women who said their claims of harassment or assault were minimized by their employers, often leading to them or others being put in further danger.

Aug 27, 2023 at 2:43pmWeb
Show threadriceandbeans161Aug 27, 2023
disappointed, but not surprised. You’d think scientists would know better, but men will apparently just be men.
Show threadSevFTWAug 27, 2023

“Men will be men” just excuses the behaviour and ostracizes men who don’t do these things. It has less to do with their sex and more to do with how we raise men.

Toxic masculinity as a defence mechanism of patriarchal society is the main problem and “feminine”, “emotional” or “weak” men, or those not subscribing to heteronormative sexuality are targeted by the same types to uphold their status.

Show threadgirlfreddyAug 27, 2023

Yup. It boils down to power imbalances that are systemic in a world where men still control almost everything.

I had always hoped we’d move past this but it seems we may not get the chance now (with climate change raging around us).

Show threadNTNUAug 27, 2023
Where some men still control almost everything.
Show threadgirlfreddyAug 27, 2023
Ofc it’s not all men, but it’s enough men that make everyone’s lives harder. So instead of arguing “not all” maybe focus on the some that are the cause of the problem.
Show threadNate CoxAug 27, 2023
I feel like the primary complaint here is that the parent commenters very much want to focus on the some that are the cause of the problem, rather than simply stating that men are problematic.
Show threadgirlfreddyAug 27, 2023
Yup. If men as a group policed their own there would be a change. But as it stands they don’t seem to want to do that all the time because it’s easier to just let the bad ones slide through.
Show threadMardukasAug 27, 2023
What’s there to police? It’s not like most aggressors are openly grabbing people in their genitals for all to see. These people know that they are wrong and so they hide it. What am I, as a man against this behaviour, supposed to do about other men?
Show threadgirlfreddyAug 27, 2023

When you hear men joke about what women they’re gonna try to f’k, let them know how shitty that is.

When you hear men make sexist jokes, let them know how shitty that is.

When you hear men talk about their wives as somehow less than, let them know how shitty that is.

And if you ever think any of those ghings in your own mind, remind yourself how shitty that is.

Show threadCarlsIIIAug 28, 2023
What if you don’t have shitty guy friends who say shitty sexist things?
Show threadgirlfreddyAug 28, 2023
Then you probably live on the moon.
Show threadCaptainAnikiAug 27, 2023
The vast majority of sex crimes happens between people that know each other.
Show threadgirlfreddyAug 27, 2023

I’m not sure what that’s supposed to mean in this context.

Are you saying that since these were co-workers and not family members that means the woman is lying?

Show threadCaptainAnikiAug 28, 2023

Of course you dont. Because you say dumb fucking nonsense like this:

If men as a group policed their own there would be a change.

Show threadCorruptBuddhaAug 29, 2023

If men as a group policed their own there would be a change.

This is actually a great idea! To make things simple perhaps we can give these policing men like… some form of identification, like a badge or a uniform so people know who to trust.

Show threadCorruptBuddhaAug 29, 2023
I love people that demand respect but can’t even give it.
Show threadSquare SingerAug 28, 2023

I wish we would stop calling it “toxic masculinity”, because that term makes it sound as if it was a thing that’s tied to being male / a thing “men just do” because they are men. It ostracises men who don’t do these things.

In a way, “toxic masculinity” ist just another way to say “men will be men”.

Words are important. Please let’s call it something that makes it clear that this is not the normal modus operandii of being male. I suggest “machoism”, which describes the topic pretty well, is well understood and makes it clear that it’s not a thing that comes naturally with being a man. If you want to, call it “toxic machoism”. But then again, that would say that not all machoism is toxic.

Show threadNythosAug 28, 2023

Men will be men is for where men do stupid shit like attach a motor to a merry-go-round and see who can sit on it for the longest or dig holes at the beach because hole.

It’s sad and sickening to see it be used to try and excuse sexual harassment and assault.

Show threadCorruptBuddhaAug 29, 2023
Boys will be boys is something frequently said by mothers. But of course that’s fact doesn’t fit the “patriarchy” narrative.
Show threaduisAug 29, 2023

are targeted by the same types to uphold their status.

Or sometimes targeted by their mothers. At least this happened to me. I had one long fingernail(on middle finger, you guessed why) and my mother complauned about it almost every day to the point where she came to dad and complained to him. He said “why do you even care?”, but she continued anyway saying “this is not how men do”.

This happened in post-Soviet society where average family with children is mother+grandmother, so it has nothing to do with “patriarchality” of society. I think problem are more general: virtual majority and I can’t translate it, but basicaly “you should do it this way because I said so”.

Show threadxuxebikoAug 27, 2023

men will apparently just be men.
this thinking removes the sexual harasser's & rapist's responsibility for their actions and moves it to their gender/DNA.

When criminal conduct is enabled, crime will escalate.

Show threadDessertStormsAug 27, 2023
And saying not all men gives every man an excuse in their mind as to why they don't need to do anything about the problem with their peers.
Show threadxuxebikoAug 27, 2023
Yes! It absolves men of their responsibility to make their society/community safe and it ensures that if they become a problem then other men will not stop them.
Show threadEl BartoAug 27, 2023

Bro. I’m a man. I have hormones. I also know how to control them.

“Men will be men” is an unfair generalization.

Show threadexussumAug 27, 2023
This screams “all lives matter”
Show threadmustardmanAug 27, 2023

No it doesn’t. The term “Black Lives Matter” doesn’t exclude other people’s lives from mattering so responding with the term “All Lives Matter” is weird.

In this case we are blindly labeling billions of people as being problematic when there is obviously some nuance.

Show threadriceandbeans161Aug 27, 2023

then why is it always men

(sure, some women and nonbinary people, but they’re vastly outnumbered by men)

Show threadFranziaAug 27, 2023
Still its a fucking low amount of men. Its not men at large. It’s these specific criminally abusive individuals.
Show threadnocturne213Aug 27, 2023
Because we have allowed this behavior to be acceptable, we have excused it with cute phrases like, “men will be men.”
Show threadEl BartoAug 27, 2023
Which one is it? Always men, or not always men?
Show threadpc_adminAug 28, 2023
Statistically it’s men like 90% of the time.
Show threadEl BartoAug 28, 2023
Source?
Show threadpc_adminAug 28, 2023

Here’s an ABS nedia release that claims 97% of sexual assault offenders are male: abs.gov.au/…/97-cent-sexual-assault-offenders-are…

So i’d say it very reasonable to say gender is the #1 indicator for whether someone will commit sexual crimes. (Also note that if you look into murder, assault, child abuse etc, all of these are similarly one sided. It’s mostly males who do these things.)

97 per cent of sexual assault offenders are male

Australian Bureau of Statistics
Show threadEl BartoAug 28, 2023
Welk, that sucks :/
Show threadQuaternionsAug 27, 2023
I really hate the “men will be men” argument. Real men don’t rape or sexually harass people.
Show threadxuxebikoAug 27, 2023

Buckingham was hired by PAE. Amentum didn’t respond to questions from the AP. Leidos Senior Vice President Melissa Lee Dueñas said it conducts background checks on all its employees.

“Our stance on sexual harassment or assault couldn’t be more clear: we have zero tolerance for such behavior,” Dueñas said in an email. “Each case is thoroughly investigated.”

Translates to 1) We thoroughly investigate and hire sexual predators and 2) We say this b.s. to protect our jobs, actually we have zero tolerance for those who complain about sexual harassment.

The report made it clear that those in charge enable sexual predators.

Show threadlasagnaAug 27, 2023
One of them carrier a hammer held by her bra. Wild.
Show threadSkyrmirAug 28, 2023
That’s just stupid, they have ice climbing picks that would hang far more comfortably from a belt. And be easier to reach when needed.
Show threadAce0fBladesAug 27, 2023
Makes you wonder what challenges women will face in future space exploration missions. Long periods of isolation with groups of coworkers with very little personal space. Not like a belligerent party can be ejected out the airlock (It’'ll probably happen who am I kidding)
Show threadtheodewereAug 28, 2023
there's no doubt that sexual predation would be a big issue and that women would be the first victims of any violence, but it's just part of the greater concern over authority in such a small society.. who is in charge, how are rules enforced and misbehavior punished.. i'm not optimistic that a Mars outpost would be able to survive its own judicial system, for example.. or any of the prepper compounds.. they're sort of all guaranteed to descend into really barbaric circumstances socially..
Show threadKevonLooneyAug 28, 2023

or any of the prepper compounds

You wouldn’t want to be stuck for a long time in a society made up exclusively of people who reject society? I can’t imagine why.

Show threadtheodewereAug 28, 2023
i'm pretty sure they're all guaranteed nightmare scenarios.. i think people build them just for the drama.. so they're all guaranteed drama queens on top of it..
Show threadAngryCommieKenderAug 28, 2023
Not any violence. Men are the cast majority of murder and assault victims. Makes sense when you realize we all had “you never hit a woman” beaten into us. Even criminals would rather harm a man than a woman.
Show threadTouching_GrassAug 28, 2023
What gender is doing all those assaults though
Show threadAngryCommieKenderAug 28, 2023
According to the DOJ it’s pretty evenly split with a slight majority of men being the perpetrators
Show threadIverCoderAug 28, 2023

Not like a belligerent party can be ejected out the airlock

a m o g u s

Show threadrambarooAug 28, 2023

Future missions should be all-women teams. Problem solved.

Women eat less, use less oxygen, and weigh less than men. There’s actually no logical reason to send male astronauts anywhere.

Show threadRand0mAAug 28, 2023

But are you including or excluding trans on that??

Mwahahahaah

Show threadlolcatnipAug 28, 2023
Oh my God you’re so clever!
Show threadRand0mAAug 28, 2023
Lighten up! I’m just taking the piss. Everyone’s lost their sense of humour for fear of being angry mobbed.
Show threadlolcatnipAug 28, 2023
Ah yes, Schrodinger’s douchebag.
Show threadRand0mAAug 28, 2023
Ah yes, clever dick mcfucknugget. Get over yourself you fanny
Show threadHonytawkAug 29, 2023
So not just Schrodinger’s douchebag, but a regular douchebag as well.
Show threadRand0mAAug 29, 2023
Uff. Mama the bigger gots are picking on me
Show threadAlexstarfireAug 29, 2023
Bold move Cotton
Show threadSyrcAug 28, 2023
Sure, weight is definitely a more important factor than idk, reaction ability in danger situations or physical resistance to unfriendly environments.
Show threadSorrowlAug 28, 2023
Yes, it is. On a long mission, even a few kg can have big differences in fuel consumption. Also the mean difference of reaction times between men and women is around 20-30ms, which is miniscule. Idk about the differences in resistance to space, but I highly doubt that men are significantly more resistant than women.
Show threadSyrcAug 28, 2023
I’m not saying men are better than women in those aspects. I’m saying a very limited amount of people, both men and women, have the physical and mental fortitude to withstand a space mission, and there is never going to be a situation where two people have the exact same qualifications and weight has to be the “tiebreaker”. It’s pretty much a non-factor.
Show threadKSP AtlasAug 29, 2023
I would assume a manned mission would have larger tolerances due to the unpredictability of humans and to ensure their safety
Show threadcone_zombieAug 29, 2023
Why is 20-30ms “miniscule”, but “a few kgs” compared to the weight of a fucking spacecraft isn’t?