I’m all for improving conditions in the prison system. However, with how bad we know it is, expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I’m surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.

I disagree. It’s a moral issue. What if someone was wrongly convicted? Force them to go against their moral system? I personally couldn’t bear to eat the flesh of an animal. I get this dudes a criminal but like, I don’t think the issue itself is laughable.

At what point do you consider something not an animal? Is it a size consideration? Like, you’d eat a hummingbird but not a chicken? Warm versus cold blooded? Is it vertebrae versus endoskeleton? Would you eat ants and crickets?

Because I get the whole no animal by products, but fermented foods are animal by products. Most breads have yeasts in it, those are animals. Beer and wine, same.

This is a completely different topic but okay.

Since you want specifics, veganism isn’t actually about animals, its about sentient beings. I wouldn’t eat a cow or a dog or a human, because they each have the capacity to suffer and the desire to live. Anything that has this capacity is off the table for vegans. Even bugs, while obviously being less sentient than a cow or human, still demonstrate this in aome capacity. So no, I just eat plants and fungi. Technically I could eat a jellyfish or even an oyster (although vegans debate it), since this capacity has not been demonstrated by them. Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative, especially an alternative that is cheaper, healthier, and far more sustainable?

Yeast is a fungus by the way.

the vegan society specifically says animals

And? That’s one organizations definition, and the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value, but because most nonvegans only respect the rights of humans and a few animals like dogs and cats. So we say “all animals” to generally say we are being morally consistent. Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

you can’t prove this.

well they don’t have fucking brains lol. why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move? it would be a waste of energy. an oyster’s nervous system is about as complex as your finger…

why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move?

there is no proof any nonhuman animal has a “desire to live” because there isn’t proof they understand personal mortality.

as for whether they have the capacity to suffer, which is all that sentience really seems to require, you can’t prove that they don’t have the capacity to suffer because you can’t prove a negative. the best you can say is that you don’t think there is enough evidence to support a claim that they ARE sentient.

if you saw a human from a tribe who spoke a language you would never understand, how do you know they feel pain and want to live? if you kick a dog, how do you know the dog didn’t enjoy it? maybe people who are asleep dont feel pain or want to live. lets just eat people in comas, or who speak other languages, and lets beat dogs because its so unclear whether they like it or not

maybe sentience or wanting to live aren’t metrics we should use as the basis of our morality.

no, you are just the only one too stupid to think its unprovable

calling me stupid doesn’t undermine my position or bolster yours.

never said it would, stupid

more ad hominem.

gets insulted

“ad hominem”

right.