MicroWaveAug 22, 2023

Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says

https://lemm.ee/post/5088288

Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says - lemm.ee

The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering. An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.

Show threadcommieAug 22, 2023
is jail really the best thing here? like does it serve society at all to lock this guy up?
Show threadFuglyDuckAug 22, 2023

Yes.

This guy stole billions of dollars in fraudulent crypto.

Not locking him up would be to admit the 2 tiered justice system exists. We all know it does. But this would admit it.

Also he did try to run. So… off to jail he goes.

Show threadcommieAug 22, 2023
locking him up won’t get anyone their money back. i don’t know what would be the right thing to do but i don’t see how keepin him in a cage helps anyone.
Show threadkaosofAug 22, 2023

The main thing is to dissuade people from doing what he did, right?

Fuck around and find out and all that.

If it has any actual use for anyone (e.g. separating dangerous people from society, taking stolen property/money back, preventing them from committing more crimes etc), that’s entirely unintentional.

Show threadcommieAug 22, 2023

The main thing is to dissuade people from doing what he did, right?

but that doesn’t work.

Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

Of course it works. When you threaten someone with jail if they do X, then they are less likely to do X.

To take one example, several states have recently made it illegal for doctors to perform abortions. As a result,obstetricians are now fleeing those states to avoid being prosecuted for performing their normal medical duties. If jail had no deterrent effect, then obstetricians would stay put and keep doing what they’ve always been doing.

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023

Of course it works.

if it worked then he wouldn’t have done it.

Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

Something doesn’t have to be 100% effective to work.

Quitting smoking works to prevent cancer. That doesn’t mean it is 100% effective in preventing cancer.

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
so you think the solution to stop someone from doing something you don’t like is to put someone else in a cage. i just can’t do that. that’s wrong.
Show threadFlowVoid

I can’t stop anyone from doing something I don’t like.

But historically, there have been plenty of solutions to stop someone from doing something society doesn’t like. For example, execution. Torture. Punishing their relatives. Exile. And prison.

Of those, I think prison is the best option.

Aug 23, 2023 at 3:05amWeb
Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
i prefer asking them nicely to please stop. i also think exile is fine, but we should try shunning first.
Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
no one was murdered or raped here, and i’m not saying to let people murder or rape.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023
So you’re fine with seeing some people in cages. You just don’t want to see SBF in a cage.
Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
no. who did i say should be caged?
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

What do you plan to do with murderers and rapists?

Exile is no longer an option, because no other country will allow them in. And everyone has already been told that murder and rape are unacceptable.

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
I don’t have a one size fits all solution, and I don’t believe any such solution can possibly be just in every circumstance.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

How about a one size fits one solution?

Lucy Letby was found guilty of murdering seven infants. Would you send her to prison?

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
no.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023
Would you punish her or sentence her at all? If so, what?
Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
I honestly don’t know enough about the situation.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023
She murdered seven infants. What more information would you need in this case?
Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
motive? mental state? all kinds of other factors might be at play.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

Her diary said that she wanted to see the parents suffer and that she knew she was evil.

What other factors would be relevant?

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
i don’t know: i don’t know the case. im not trying to litigate it in the comment section about sam bankman-fried, either. you asked, i answered. you just don’t like my answer. i don’t care to be interrogated any more.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

You said you would not send anyone to prison but cannot offer any alternatives.

Now let me tell you why a policy of not punishing people like Lucy Letby is a terrible idea. She would become a target of revenge-minded people, possibly even the parents of the infants she killed.

She would be tortured and/or killed by individuals who felt justice hadn’t been done. After all, if Lucy Letby doesn’t face serious repercussions for her actions, then her killer has no reason to worry either.

For better or worse, society demands retribution. Government must provide it, otherwise people will take matters into their own hands.

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
i think i prefer taking matters into my own hands.
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

You may trust your own judgement, but do you trust the judgment of literally everyone in the world?

Recently a woman was killed by someone who was offended by her rainbow flag. Not long ago, a teenager killed a boyfriend who wanted to break up with her.

Today, those are the actions only of unstable people. But they would become the norm if you allow everyone to be judge, jury, and executioner. How long do you suppose an LGBTQ person would survive in Idaho?

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023

laws don’t stop people who want to do bad things. if vigilantism were normalized, mores would form around it, and there would be no need for laws or government.

that’s far off. we need to liberate people from the material conditions that keep them in bondage to the capitalist class before we can start figuring out what the world will look like after teh revolution. in the mean time, i still don’t think it does us any good to pay to jail these people.

Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

Vigilantism is no better than a criminal justice system. You still have rules that you must follow, and punishment for those who break the rules. Vigilantes could even lock someone on a cage if they felt like it.

So I don’t see why you prefer subjecting someone to the whims of vigilante mob than to much more predictable criminal processing. If anything, vigilantes have embraced racism and class preferences far more openly than our legal system.

Show threadcommieAug 23, 2023
vigilantes don’t have a monopoly on violence and a labyrinthine bureaucracy preventing policy change
Show threadFlowVoidAug 23, 2023

A monopoly on violence is usually a good thing. The alternative is war, either on a local level (like gang wars) or national (civil war). Wars are generally to be avoided

And policy change may be hard, but changing the attitudes of a mob is much harder. We passed laws against racism in the 1960s, we still haven’t eliminated racist mobs.