const_voidCar Prices Might Be Unsustainable for Buyers
Cars are unsustainable for our planet. Even EV’s.
It’s already too late to stop the damage they have caused already. The best time to transition to alternative modes of transportation was during the 70’s. The second best time is now.
evs are way worse
What do you base that on? EVs are certainly not the solution, but way worse is arguably not accurate.
lithium is not a sustainable storage solution. comment back when sodium batteries have scalable production, not just a discovery in a lab
Would you say that burning fossil fuels is a sustainable solution?
When stacked against each other, I find it kind of baffling that you would lean towards the combustion-based variant.
well dont necessarily use diesel, use high octane fuel instead, methanol, biofuel, anything…but mining cobalt and lithium is way harmful…also cars arent the most harmful transportation invention in this world: how about airlines? have u ever considered taking a train instead of flying (especially country bound ?)
Unfortunately, I say this as a train lover. They require a lot more infrastructure than planes and will always be at a disadvantage because of that. You can set up an airport pretty much anywhere and make it reachable by pretty much anyone. Whereas with the train, you need a dedicated line from point to point that you will commit to maintaining through hell and high water.
There’s also the problem that in many countries, we are deliberately neglecting our train infrastructure and not investing in high speed alternatives that could compete with an airline over shorter distances.
All of these factors combine to make individual trips less efficient over train. I had to cross the United States this week. To do so by train would have taken me 4 days. Doing so by plane took me 6 hours. Nobody would choose a 4-day trip over a 6-hour one unless their goal is to look out the window a lot. Which is perfectly valid. But most people don’t look at traveling itself as the experience. And in this case, I had a particular event that I had to attend.
4 day trips need to be normalized: our capitalistic lords have made us more accepting of fast living: an average flight consommes about 7 tons of kerosene per flight, and release 3 times as much of co2 in mass, ie 20 tons, per single flight. travel by train albeit slow, but releases way less greenhouse gas. train or airplane infrastrucuture cost comparison: only an expert consultant could wager which one of both is less costly. ever wondered why we retire at 65 on average? u would say with all the efficiencies implemented in transport and the extra work time we put we would retire earlier, yet, we only work more in older age. something is missing in the loop
A lot to unpack here.
well dont necessarily use diesel, use high octane fuel instead, methanol, biofuel, anything,
They are all pretty bad ways of powering motors, to be honest.
ice cars are now way efficient than ever…
And yet they are far inferior to electric motors. Combustion necessarily comes with the lions share of the energy being wasted as heat.
but mining cobalt and lithium is way harmful…
It’s not great, but then again, neither is the extraction of fossil fuels from the ground. From what I can tell, it’s actually far worse than the metal extraction we’re doing.
Consider that you may have fallen for fossil fuel industry propaganda that is trying their very best to cling on to their last years of high profits.
also cars arent the most harmful transportation invention in this world: how about airlines?
Apples and oranges. I’m not even really sure why you’re bringing it up.
have u ever considered taking a train instead of flying (especially country bound ?)
The vast majority of my long-distance traveling is done by train. My last international trip was by train, in fact! If only we invested more in trains, and stopped subsidizing flying. I love traveling by train, and I’m not exactly a fan of flying.
always forget that i am commenting in c/ fuckcars… i should consider unsubscribing from here; hating solely on cars is pointless)
I don’t think most people in here are solely hating on cars. They are bad, though, and that’s kind of the topic. There are other communities for hating on other harmful things in our world.
what i am trying to say: evs cant be easily adopted beyond western europe and us:africa, latin america, eastern europe and some parts of asia dont really have solid public transportation or good car infrastructure, let alone afford ev infrastructure and ev loans, so ice cars are a sustainable mean of transport in those countries: which could account for half of the earth population. investing in a more affordable and sustainable form of energy is beneficial for everyone: sure if u guys (rich countries) feel like susbidizing ev instead then go ahead, but u r hurting other countries in the process: especially lithium rich countries. investing in hydrogen would be cool for everyone, but i am no expert. also lithium storage and electric engines aren’t fit for aerial or maritime transport, so better think long term for the benefit of everything, it shouldnt be only about cars. but anyway…
asia isn’t solely china ?
No, but it’s about a third China
There is far, far more lithium in the earth’s crust than we will ever need for energy storage. We’re only just now hurting for it because Tesla showed that electric cars are feasible as daily drivers which caused a huge surge in demand. We’ll catch back up in a few more years. And the third world countries that let shitty mining practices take place are what give it a bad name right now. No one wants child slaves in the Congo to mine cobalt for us so we can drive to work. US mines are being built, new processes are being invented, and new battery chemistries that rely less on rare minerals are constantly being invented and implemented.
You’re just being a sourpuss.
source: trust me bro ?
a lithium battery require also cobalt as cathode, it cant solely run on an anode
There are lots of lithium battery types that do not contain any cobalt, such as LFP that is used more and more for electric cars.
more and more
hopefully. still, evs are quite expensive
The charging infrastructure needed for the vast majority of BEV drivers, the vast majority of the time, is a power outlet in their garage.
this is not ur average 10 amp gauge cable.
Jesse@zoe @ramenbellic Level 1 charging is exactly that. Just a regular plug in to a regular socket. Level 1 charging overnight will fully charge many EVs (enough charge for a week of commuting). The average car sits idle for almost the entire day so slow charging is all most people need.
Exactly, I charge 120v at 8 amps just using a standard outlet in my garage and it generally provides enough charge for my commute and errands. I’ll usually top up at the free L2 at the grocery store while charging, and rely on DCFC for road trips.
Installing a L2 charger in my garage would be a tremendous waste of money and natural resources. The only reason I would consider it is that my utility company offers very cheap Time of Use (overnight) electricity rates (2¢/kWh, vs our normal 15¢/kWh) if we installed a separate, EV charging only meter for the garage.
rm_dash_r_starAlso Sodium Ion batteries are currently in production and could be a viable alternative as the technology advances and production ramps up.
Right now Na-Ion batteries rival only the LFP type of Li-Ion battery (lithium-iron-phosphate) having a lower energy density than other Lithium chemistries. LFP is used commonly in power storage for it’s higher safety and much greater cycle life, but it carries about 20% less power for size and weight.
Na-Lion is a new type of battery chemistry with lots of potential for improvement. They use more sustainable materials being cheaper and more abundant. Right now the favored battery type for EVs is the LMFP type which is lithium based and has the highest energy density.
LMFP combines several advantages of the various Li-Ion chemistries having the highest energy density with greater safety and longevity. Still if they could get the Na-Ion battery type within range of LMFP, it would be a hugely better solution, a lot cheaper, a lot safer, and much easier on the environment.
So you man “Lithium is way worse” not EVs?
in a nutshell yea. bring up an ev that isnt dependant on rare earth metals and i would gladly embrace it, cause even the motors use rare neodymium
Do you think refined gasoline just comes straight out of the ground?