HcInfosecAug 20, 2023
@jeroen @mattblaze In general voting by going to a specific place inside the town where you live is cumbersome. If we can get a good system to mostly get rid of that that will likely increase voting turnout. Having elections with 40% turnup is much more dangerous to #democracy than it security risks, of course unless these lasts once are huge (which is possible)
Show threadMatt BlazeAug 20, 2023

@HcInfosec @jeroen Yes, and every technical expert who has seriously studied online voting as come to the same conclusion about the risks, because there are fundamental problems and requirements that preclude building an Internet voting system sufficient for civil elections.

It's not that scientists don't think Internet voting would be nice. Just as physicists don't think perpetual motion machines wouldn't be terrific. It's just that they understand fundamental reasons we can't make them.

Show threadMatt BlazeAug 20, 2023

@HcInfosec @jeroen You want an Internet voting system? You have two choices. One is to relax some of the basic requirements and civil rights associated with voting (at least in the US), such as the secret ballot. The other option is to have elections where we can never be sure who actually won, and that are vulnerable to disruption by anyone connected to the Internet.

Neither option seems great.

Show threadMatt BlazeAug 20, 2023
@HcInfosec @jeroen And these are because of FUNDAMENTAL properties of software-based systems and the requirements of voting, These are not things we can engineer our way out of with better technology or by working harder. We'd have to either change the requirements for democratic elections or accept potentially unbounded uncertainty in election outcomes, no matter what technical advances happen.
Show threadKalle KniiviläAug 20, 2023
@mattblaze @HcInfosec @jeroen So what, exactly, is fundamentally wrong with, say, the Estonian voting system?
🤔
#Estonia #voting #elections
Show threadStanislav OchotnickýAug 20, 2023
@kallekn @mattblaze @HcInfosec @jeroen I don't think anything is wrong with it, but if wikipedia is right, voting is done using Estonian ID card. Which I think "breaks" the assumption in US voting that nobody can tell who you voted for. So that would be a difference in the voting requirements between Estonia and US.
Show threadHcInfosecAug 20, 2023
@drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen In the USA mail voting system you mail in your ballot and it contains your vote and your signature. So they also know what you voted.
The analog procedures must guarantee this information is not leaked. In theory the voting counting machine could fill a nice database with who voted what.
Show threadHcInfosecAug 20, 2023
@drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen I was wrong here since the signature is on the outside of the envelope apparently. Thay makes a difference
Show threadNorman WilsonAug 21, 2023
@HcInfosec @drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen Yep. Typical system:
You fill out ballot.
Seal in special envelope,with tear-off tab on outside, with place for your name and signature.
Special envelope then goes in another envelope for mailing.
When ballot arrives at voting office, tab is torn off and filed as (a) proof that they received your ballot; (b) means to tell if the same voter votes twice.
Ballot itself, still sealed in envelope, goes in a box without tab, opened only for counting.
Show threadNorman WilsonAug 21, 2023
@HcInfosec @drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen I know this stuff because I've been a US overseas voter for >30 years.
More recently I have had the option to send my completed ballot to the election office by FAX or (scanned) by e-mail. When I do this there is a separate sheet where I must sign twice: once in place of the envelope tab; the other as an acknowledgement that by sending my ballot that way, I am waiving my right to a secret ballot.
Show threadNorman Wilson

@HcInfosec @drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen So I have the option of sending the ballot electronically but with privacy risk, or sending it more slowly but with better guarantee of privacy. Reasonable balance.

Oh, and if I send electronically, I must also mail the original, but it's then OK if it arrives some specified time after election day. I believe that is used if a recount is required--original paper still needed for that.

Aug 21, 2023 at 7:09pmWeb
Show threadNorman WilsonAug 21, 2023
@HcInfosec @drizzy @kallekn @mattblaze @jeroen Details probably vary by state. Overseas US voters are guaranteed by federal law the right to vote for federal offices in the state and district where they were last eligible to vote (even if they never registered there), but the voting procedures are still handled by the state. Up to the state whether you're allowed to vote for state offices. Mine didn't but recently changed their mind and now allow it.