It occurred to me today that the social value of the open-source work I do in my free time has probably been an order of magnitude more useful to the world than everything I've ever done as a paid employee. Needing to seek a wage almost certainly makes me a less productive member of society than I would otherwise be.

@jsbarretto

a perfect case in point for #UBI (Universal Basic income)

@HistoPol @jsbarretto that and universal basic services

@tshepang
I would need to give this idea some more thought.

You see, if a service does not cost anything at all, there tends to be waste and abuse.

If everyone is given a basic income to cover their (basic) needs, this would solve that problem too, don't you think?

In any event, public goods should be held by a (non-corrupt) state and not by private citizens or corporations (e.g. water rights).

@jsbarretto

@HistoPol @tshepang I think this is a common misnomer. When it comes to basic services, it's rare that they're abused. In the UK, healthcare is free at the point of use but nobody goes for a jolly down to the local hospital. Similarly, almost nobody does the same for food banks, social benefits, etc. without good reason. I don't think that humans actually behave like classical economics would suggest (i.e: as cynical min-maxers who will readily take over the needs of others).

@jsbarretto @tshepang

Interesting thoughts.

Apart from health care (where I tend to disagree, as the inflation rate, including innovation had been 12-15%, depending on the country, even before the Pandemic . The #NHS is in a huge crisis and even in non-Oil countries, maintaining it open for all is gigantic and access must be limited for the system not to break. - Limited regarding the scope of the services, not regarding nationals and residents.)
...which universal basic services do you see?

@HistoPol @tshepang What do you mean by 'see' exactly? I think food/healthcare/housing/water/heating/internet connection are all pretty essential for living in today's world, so I'd rather see their provision to all citizens be a statutory requirement placed upon both local and national governments.
@jsbarretto @HistoPol I would extend that to all, not just citizens, for it would be very sad to be denied such basic things for being born in the "wrong" place

@tshepang
In order for a state to take care of its citizens and (legal) residents who have to foot the bill, NO system can ever be open to all comers, as there are always limited resources.
Just have a look at the millions of war #refugees that had to be accommodated in the #EU.
Many low-income citizens and residents are already crowded out of an extremely tight housing market. Right-wing governments are already in place or might be soon. Asking for freedom...

@jsbarretto

@tshepang @jsbarretto

...of movement for any human being a desirable as this may be, would simply lead to a breakdown of virtually all services provided by the state.
A case in point: the Lebanon, virtually a failed state.
No, a somewhat just solution would be that the old industrialized nations pay #ClimateReparations to the former #colonial countries, as the University of #Leeds recently suggested.

@HistoPol @jsbarretto does not have to be... modern states have great wealth, and can accommodate more than they already are, only it happens such resources are not efficiently distributed. I also would not view refugees as a burden... they too can bring value to the new society.

@tshepang @jsbarretto

I strongly disagree with the "wealth" statement. Several G7 countries are greatly in debt and live on bortowed time. Many cannot even finance all that would be necessary to achieve the 1.5Β°C target.

Yes, of course immigrants bring new skillsets to a country. The problem arises when they become too many; just ask any surviving indigenous people of the Americas. πŸ˜‰

I completely agree with the uneven wealth-distribution problem, however. In particular, the earth...

@HistoPol @tshepang and who are those countries in debt to...?

@jsbarretto @tshepang

Here is an overview of the G20's and several NICa' state debts, customarily in % of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP, BIP in German.)

It shows, for how many years a country would have to use the complete monetary value of all of its goods and services generated in a year to repay their debts.

(Alas, it is in German, but most country names should be known from the Olympics.)

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/684061/umfrage/staatsverschuldung-in-den-g20-staaten/

Staatsverschuldung in den G20 Staaten | Statista

In den USA betrΓ€gt die Staatsverschuldung im Jahr 2022 rund 121,7 Prozent des Bruttoinlandsprodukts.

Statista

@HistoPol @tshepang You're not answering the question though, and answering it is critical. Who are they in debt *to*?

The answer is: their own private sector. And, further, these debts actually provide value to their host economies through stable government bonds.

Government debt is not the demon it's been made out to be and doesn't really have much bearing on the ability of an economy to support people.

@jsbarretto @tshepang
My knowledge as to the specific creditors is limited.

However, if you have read the Panama Papers, I seem to remember that e.g. Africa's wealth seems to be controlled chiefly by 3 families. (Don't quote me on that, it's been some years.)

But looking, selectively, at Russia, the US, Latin America, and many Arab countries, for instance, I'd hazard a guess: international #oligarchs.

@HistoPol @tshepang ...who only accrue the wealth that they do because the very governments that owe debt to them allow them to acquire said wealth. When you zoom out and look at economies on the scale of nations, debt ceases to be of interest (and even more so if those economies control their currency). Only productive capacity matters.

@jsbarretto

(1/2)

Interesting thought, but alas, no, not quite IMO.

You can only cancel out things within one mathematical term.

The oligarchs and the corporatists that control these debts are "extra-national," often holding several passports, and are NOT under the control of national governments (maybe with the partial exception of #Russia--different story.)

They, in turn, control Western democracies through their lobbyists and the...

@tshepang

@jsbarretto @tshepang

(2/2)

...politicians on their payroll. The US have become a clear plutocracy since #CitizensUnitedVsFEC (see thread.)

A pars pro toto, #Elon: he controls 50% of global satellite πŸ›° internet communications, and hardly any government can risk to alienate.

So, no, they do not factor out. Different groups/entities.

Here are some links regarding lobbyists, if needed:

https://mstdn.social/@corporateeurope/110513996813840660

https://newsie.social/@nbcnews/110433183224846421

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110663430156794308

https://mstdn.social/@corporateeurope/110514000647075242

//

Corporate Europe Observatory (@[email protected])

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