MicroWaveGeorgia school board fires teacher for reading a book to students about gender identity
grueOf course it’s fucking kkkobb county.
Cobb county has actually turned pretty solidly blue over the past decade.
So what? The school board and other elected officials haven’t.
It will be soon
I hope so, but that’s cold comfort to this already-fired teacher.
Also, even if it flipped today (and “soon” isn’t that soon), it’d still be decades and decades before Cobb gets MARTA rail. It’s an unmitigated catastrophe and probably will be for the rest of my lifetime.
Cobb might join MARTA sooner than we think, but sadly you’re mostly right. I have no hope for any rail expansion in my lifetime, and I’m not even old.
Unfortunately, “joining MARTA” and “getting rail” are far from synonymous, as Clayton is learning the hard way. But the United States in general’s comprehensive inability to build infrastructure in a reasonable timeframe these days is a rant for another thread…
Depressing truth
I’m trying to wrap my head the intent.
Is this a case where she was fired because the book didn’t have anything to do with the class she’s teaching? Or because a bunch of parents went Karen and it made the school district look bad?
If a history class references passages from the bible, I think that is inappropriate in general but it depends on context. But if it’s using the bible to explain say the history of the Holy War, makes sense.
If she was teaching Sex Ed and talking about gender fluidity, in that context it makes sense to me.
Flying SquidThe ‘insubordination’ part is especially confounding. She’s insubordinate by reading a children’s book to children? What?
harmoneaShe’s insubordinate by reading a children’s book to children? What?
If it's "insubordination' then it's safe to assume either (a) she was explicitly told not to do this by a superior, or (b) there must be a rule or regulation against it in the school district.
Or (c) they’re making up bullshit reasons to fire her.
The thing is: You need the kids to have this information before puberty really starts to take off so they know what's going on with them when they start to feel things that are related to gender fluidity/homosexuality/whatever, so they grow up without the self-doubts and such but with the feeling that what they are is just another human being.
Things related to sexual attraction (e.g. homosexuality) might start around puberty, but gender dysphoria can start even earlier than that. This source claims that about 3/4 of folks with gender dysphoria first experience it by age 7.
Most Gender Dysphoria Established by Age 7 | Cedars-Sinai
Gender dysphoria manifests early in childhood and can persist for years before patients undergo counseling and treatment, a Cedars-Sinai study has found. The findings also reveal that untreated gender dysphoria can result in poor quality of life for transgender people, beginning in childhood and lasting throughout adolescence and adulthood.Gende...
Applying logic to bigotry is a waste of time. It’s just ingroup loyalty. The rest is mouth noises. They won’t be clever noises, and they won’t be consistent noises.
DessertStormsThe intent is transphobia, anything else is an excuse.
I mean they have a very logical point, it’s probably unlikely but for example you would have to admit if it was a maths class and there was an important standardized exam coming up, such unrelated material would be a highly unusual waste of time and in contempt of the time sensitive curriculum. We can’t just politicize every headline and grab our pitchforks before we get the full picture - details and nuance are important for categorizing things like this. Perhaps it is though, the article sounds bad with no further context.
Everyone says this but I remember my teachers wasting our time pretty often. I can still tell you about my 7th grade English teacher’s time he met his future daughter-in-law but not the difference between an adverb and a verb.
The thing I remember the most from 5th grade was the day we learned the names of all the NBA teams
It isn't a logical point it's whataboutism and an army of strawmen.
And by playing devils advocate with these empty fallacies, you are actively contributing to the problem.
And by playing devils advocate with these empty fallacies, you are actively contributing to the problem.
what details? the article is short and vague. it mentions not being in support of learning. it’s a clickbait headline with no substance provided.
there is a nuanced difference between transphobia and not wanting to discuss topics that cause arguments in a school
It’s still transphobia, the only reason it’s viewed as a political topic is because of transphobia. It’s pretty cowardly to say we should avoid talking about gender/trans issues just because it makes people uncomfortable, and might cause arguments. Trans people exist, but you’re arguement kinda says to me “They aren’t worth the trouble, id rather sideline them to avoid disagreements.”.
Abortion is a rough comparison, it’s a heavy topic and I think it would probably be inappropriate for more reasons than just being a “Political” topic.
The only reason it’s viewed as a political topic is because of transphobia.
I agree with you on this, and I won’t disagree on your point about it being cowardly. But, we should also agree on the technicality that cowardice is not the same as transphobia. Not wanting to discuss things in a setting that would lead to a state that is contrary to the goals of that setting, isn’t the same as hating or fearing that thing. Instead of abortion we can say, cell phones are banned in most schools because they cause a distraction. It’s nothing against phones particularly, but this is pretty obviously going to go against an environment for learning in most cases.
Before you get upset, I agree gender identity should be something that should be discussed in a school that has the overall goal of creating informed, productive, mentally well citizens. As the article is so vague, it’s unclear if this is a situation where it could be discussed and promote healthy dialogue, or even one where it was done in protest of the laws specifically where other curriculum was on the schedule. I hope someone with some sense can investigate and some type of justice is insured to have occurred.
Gender identity is more than just being trans you know.
Transphobes don’t know that.
I did some digging to see if she was teaching a particular subject or anything. She was a teacher in the schools gifted program and per her Wikipedia page “According to the Cobb County School Board, Rinderle read the book during a time block that was supposed to be dedicated to mathematics instruction and enrichment, but Rinderle denies this allegation.”.
I’m going to keep looking but it seems like their schooling is structured differently than I have any experience in. When I was in 5th grade we had 3 teachers that we rotated between for different subjects. It seems like she was responsible for several subjects or the entire curriculum for her students.
agent_flounderThanks for looking into this.
Reading an off topic book during a particular time block isn’t an offense deserving of termination to any same person, either.
I just don’t understand why 5th graders should even be exposed to that that early. For kids that haven’t even gone through puberty yet I think gender identity is a pretty mature topic, and I don’t think I’d want a teacher being the one to discuss it with my child.
And before someone says that I just want to suppress the info keeping it out of school, what about the flip side where a nut job teacher decides 2 genders is part of the lesson plan?
5th grade seems like an appropriate time to start educating students about this as part of their health curriculum. That’s the grade when they gave us the puberty talk in my old school district.
Some early bloomers absolutely start puberty during or before 5th grade.
For people outside the US how old would 5th graders actually be?
11 usually
They seems like a perfectly reasonable age to introduce a person to a topic like puberty.
Like I’m pretty sure I was taught the basics of it and what it does to your body when I was that age.
Nowadays a lot of girls at that age already menstruate. It is not only appropriate, you might even argue it is a tad late.
Isn't that a bit late to be starting basic health education? For girls, that's above the average age of beginning puberty and for both, it's years after the cutoff for it being consider precocious.
It is a bit late, but for what it’s worth, we started the puberty lessons at 10 years old and I was one of the older kids in class. Most were 9.
The teacher was fired for teaching gender theory, not sex education. Those are very different things and I suspect you know that.
Yes they are two different things but they are related. Puberty can be devastating to a child who isn’t comfortable with their body. In some cases puberty blockers are prescribed to delay the physical changes for children with gender disphoria. So educating gender identity along with puberty isn’t a bad idea.
And yes, some children do start questioning their gender before they start puberty.
But this is all speculative. We don’t know what the context for this teacher reading the book, but calling it inappropriate for their age is wrong.
I think it's wrong. Gender theory is pretty radical. It has no factual basis. Reinforcing delusions is universally destructive in psychology. As long as those delusions aren't reinforced, most kids reconcile without intervention. This study found that only 37% of children still identified as dysphoric five years later. This study found that 88% had desisted (they were no longer dysphoric). This mirrors other historical research into various areas of child psychology. Children frequently change identity and beliefs around identity.
As for puberty blockers, they don't just delay puberty. They also have devastating side effects, including osteoporosis and diabetes. That is why puberty blockers for gender dysphoria has now been banned in Sweden, the United Kingdom, and other European nations.
“When we asked him regularly how his back felt, he said: ‘I’m in pain all the time’,” she added.
This topic is rather personal to me, so I've researched this topic to the best of my abilities. I'm happy to concede this isn't settled science, but must reinforce that this isn't settled science. It's not clear that affirmation is beneficial, and in fact, research indicates the opposite.
NYRAG? You serious bro?
Google tells me that NYRAG stands for the New York Regional Association of Grantmakers. I'm sorry but I don't understand how that relates.
Of course you don’t, because you consume painfully obvious Russian and Conservative propaganda!
You think the U.S. National Library of Medicine, the Front Psychiatry journal, and the Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry are "Russian and Conservative propaganda"?
Lol.
Just admit you got stooged. It’s ok. It happens to all of us. Well, not the smart ones, anyway.
Maybe it’s just how I was raised or taught, sex ed didn’t start till 7th/8th grade for me, and looking back seemed like an appropriate age to me.
Except 1.) you’re not an expert 2.) that doesn’t mean we can’t do better.
Of course I’m not an expert, that’s why I’m on this site having a discussion. Wasn’t aware being an expert was required to comment here.
Maybe it’s just how I was raised or taught, sex ed didn’t start till 7th/8th grade for me, and looking back seemed like an appropriate age to me.
Notice how i didn’t say, “And thats the age it should stay” i said to me it SEEMED appropriate, that is my opinion, I never claimed my life experience should dictate how all children should be taught. Im not arguing in bad faith, merely expanding on where my thoughts and opinions come from.
But this isn’t sex ed. Discussing gender doesn’t mean discussing having sex.
I mean I remember taking biology that went over reproductive anatomy in 6th grade. I feel like gender identity isn't any more mature of a topic than penises and vaginas. Maybe my school was an outlier though? Either way I think letting kids who might not feel comfortable with their gender know that their feelings are valid is important enough to warrant mentioning in elementary school
My sister “knew” she was trans when she was around 8. Granted, we didn’t have the terminology back then so…
That being said, how is it a “mature” topic? We teach children the concept of “this boy” and “this girl” much earlier than that. And I’m confused how the concept has anything to do with puberty either.
Same with my younger sibling. It was very obvios early in their life, but we didn’t had words for it either. Didn’t understand and didn’t took it that serious.
I had my period with 11 years, but suffered till i was 30. Cause it was a tabu to talk about that. I need to Suffer, i was told. BS.
It is crucial to give kids knowledge that they are not wrong. That they are not weird. That they know everything is okay and their parents are here guiding them. AND they need to know that other people are not weird so they can learn empathy.
It’s clearly a children’s book. Do you really think it’s presented in any sort of inappropriate way?
You can easily talk to preschoolers about this stuff. A little bit of information about the world they live in doesn’t hurt them in the least.
I think it's common to conflate Gender Dysphoria and sexual maturity since hormone therapy is a common treatment. Here is a study from the nlm about the age transgender adults first experienced symptoms of GD. It's only one study so maybe do some additional reading.
How Early in Life do Transgender Adults Begin to Experience Gender Dysphoria? Why This Matters for Patients, Providers, and for Our Healthcare System
The age at which transgender women (TW) and men (TM) first experience gender dysphoria (GD) has not been reported in a U.S. population of adults seeking genital gender-affirming surgery (gGAS). Because gender is an innate part of identity, we hypothesized ...
HopeOfTheGunbladeSaid it in another thread on this:
I'm trans.
I figured it out, literally in the fifth grade.
It's not too early. It's not too hard. It's not bad for them. Not having proper knowledge of things has made my life harder and worse than it had to be. If you want to help kids, teaching them things is how you do that. Hiding things from them hurts trans kids, and it makes it easier for predators to predate on kids. If you want to hurt kids, that's on you, but say it with your fuckin' chest. Don't hide behind this line that you know is false.
Oh, and re nutjob teachers:
We teach evolution in school, because the data backs it. We don't teach creationism in school, because the data doesn't back it. It's not that hard, this argument is pointless chaff.
HuddaBuddaAs someone who grew up on the home school christian cult side of things.
I've done the abstinence only teaching, to the point I was in my teens and thought all girls had a penis.
Ya, ya, laugh it up.
Only thing I can say is, it doesn't work, it never did. Once body changes start happening kids have tons of questions and when the answer to those questions is "Do nothing", that's not going to be enough.
Especially when we grow up in a society that encourages asking questions and giving answers. Until it gets into this one topic.
What does puberty have to do with the topic? Should we wait til puberty to teach people that the flu or covid exists? It's a topic connected to many deaths, so surely it's a mature topic. Otoh, gender is a pretty basic topic parents force onto children, often before the child is even born. Why do we allow such inappropriate behavior towards literal children?
Yeah why tell kids about puberty until they’re done with it?
My daughters went through puberty at 9 and almost 9. That’s 4th grade. The older one knew she was gay by 11. I had sex ed starting in 5th grade back in the fucking 80’s.