@Mer__edith says the app that builds its empire on anti-Telegram FUD and implementing spy-compliant E2EE on Whatsapp, forcing data to stay on the device where it can be read out.

@lapingvino @Mer__edith Where would you like the data to be stored? The only devices that have decryption keys are the ones within the conversation. That's what E2EE is.

@me @Mer__edith that is exactly the issue. Devices are a fixed issue for people who want your data, through Pegasus and rootkits in the CPU etc. But mostly it really depends on your threat vector. The threat vectors I have seen in practice rely on you decoding the data for invasive people. Telegram is much better for plausible deniability, increasing actual security for most people. People using Signal have been caught at the border with incriminating information, and unlike Telegram you cannot just remove the app and be good. That is what E2EE encryption does in real life, it makes sure the data stays on the device where the bad guys can get it.

@lapingvino @Mer__edith You absolutely can just remove the app. The data is tied to the app. Signal also provides you with tools to share sensitive information without leaving traces, namely disappearing messages, which are also E2EE.

No tech will help you if your OPsec isn't good.

@lapingvino @Mer__edith

Since Signal's servers have no idea what you send and receive it's up to you how you handle sensitive data. Make sensitive messages ephemeral!

@me you miss the point. you are right about what you say, but that is not my point.

@lapingvino My point is that I'd very much prefer only my device having the decryption key for my private messages.

To prevent being forced to reveal my secrets, I have all the tools at my disposal. They can't get incriminating evidence if there is no incriminating evidence.

You are correct that this requires vigilance on my part, which is why I clear my Signal chats frequently.

The people getting caught at the border clearly had bad OPSec. Nothing will save you from that.

I'm interested in what kind of plausible deniability does Telegram offer compared to Signal? If you're caught red handed, you're caught red handed.