SensualHonkey [he/him]Nato official suggests Ukraine could give up land in exchange for membership
jack [he/him, comrade/them]But the war must be continued at all costs so that Ukraine’s territorial integrity isn’t violated
mimInteresting how tankies keep saying that the west is forcing Ukraine to keep fighting. But when NATO suggests they give some land to Russia to stop the war, the Ukrainians get offended and want to keep fighting. 🤔
FuckyWucky [none/use name]Ukrainians get offended and want to keep fighting
‘Ukrainians’ are not a monolith. The Ukrainian government doesn’t necessarily reflect opinions of the Ukrainian people (especially if you compare between regions within Ukraine).
west is forcing Ukraine to keep fighting
If NATO wants to stop the war, then why does it keep supplying Ukraine with weapons? Don’t you think that indicates they want the war to go on indefinitely (and help out U.S. military industrial complex)?
If NATO wants to stop the war, then why does it keep supplying Ukraine with weapons? Don’t you think that indicates they want the war to go on indefinitely (and help out U.S. military industrial complex)?
NATO wants to give assurances to their Eastern European members that they won’t bail on them when Russia starts eyeing their territory.
If they wanted to keep the war going, they wouldn’t have made the offer in the first place.
after he said publicly that Ukraine could give up territory to Russia in exchange for Nato membership and an end to the war.
Key part " in exchange for Nato membership and an end to the war.". NATO didn’t let Ukraine join the last time they asked because NATO is well aware that it could lead to multiple countries having nuclear weapons (U.S., UK and France) going against Russia.
Why do you think NATO would want to give remaining parts of Ukraine the NATO membership if such a peace agreement where the NATO Ukraine remains in war with Russia? This will result in a very sensitive situation where a NATO member (Ukraine) and Russia are in a frozen war with each other. If Ukraine were to try to take their territory back, it’ll be a war between entire NATO and Russia.
I believe NATO is well aware of the fact that such a ‘deal’ is not possible.
Yes, NATO doesn’t want a deal that could spark another war. And they also offered Ukraine a way to settle a dispute, lose territory, and stop a current war.
Explain to me then: How is the west forcing Ukraine to keep fighting? And don’t say “stop supplying weapons”, NATO has to assure their members that they would stand by them.
NATO has to assure their members that they would stand by them.
Ukraine isnt in NATO officially.
Are you saying NATO wants to give ‘assurance’ to its own members that they’ll provide help if Russia were to enter NATO territory by ‘helping’ a non-NATO country? Don’t you think its a bit ridiculous to give billions of dollars of weapons (thus weakening themselves) just to ‘prove’ to its eastern European members that NATO will ‘help’? U.S. already has military bases in Germany, Poland and Baltics, one would think large number of U.S. soldiers just being in Eastern Europe and multiple NATO countries having nuclear weapons would be enough of a deterrence for Russia to not invade.
Public opinion in Eastern European NATO countries is very much pro-Ukraine. They want NATO to send more weapons.
In fact, they have gone above and beyond to send them more weapons (percent-wise), than other countries.
“When it comes to new equipment, the Eastern European partners will primarily turn to the United States,” said Matthias Wachter, chief defense analyst at the German industry association BDI. “Germany and France have unfortunately disqualified themselves in the eyes of many eastern Europeans by way of their reluctant stance on military support for Ukraine.”
:>For example, Poland is in line to receive an undisclosed number of Challenger 2 tanks from the U.K. to backfill its supply of T-72 tanks to Ukraine. That’s in addition to the planned purchase of 250 Abrams tanks from the United States in a deal worth almost $5 billion.
As a result, Poland, once interested in joining the German-French Eurotank development effort, will now be flush with modern tanks for decades to come, Wachter noted.
Washington has worked for years to get former Warsaw Pact countries to replace their Soviet-era equipment with NATO-compatible kit. A $713 million tranche of aid announced Monday, aimed at Ukraine and its neighbors, is meant to do just that.
Eastern Europe gives up its old Soviet era weapons, obtains fancy ones from the U.S. Military Industrial Complex.
Ukraine weapon switcheroos are flushing Soviet arms out of Europe
As some Eastern European nations send their Soviet-era kit to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia’s attack, the new weapons those nations stand to get in return from the United States and its allies could shape the continent’s arsenal for years to come.
How does that contradict what I’ve said? They want NATO to send weapons, and they fear Russia (for obvious reasons). And NATO needs to reassure them that they will support them in defending themselves against a potential Russian invasion.
Are you trying to change the subject? Or did you genuinely did not understand what I said?