Shouldn't we be switching buses with light railway?
Even if you think what would you would say is obvious, please add. This is genuinely something I think makes sense given the longevity of light rail and how infrequently routes change, but I also suffer from confirmation bias, so I’m hoping for reasons this would be a terrible idea.
Many people aren’t, which is why so many of these discussions have very muddled conversations in places.
Trams (Streetcars in the US) usually run on rails on the main roads. They might have some parts off the road, or have priority at intersections so that they’re faster than blocked up traffic. Trams are usually designed to service the last mile problem so they go right through neighborhoods and commercial districts with stops about every 200-600m.
Light rail (Metro trains, S-Bahn) and subways (U-Bahn, London Underground) are larger trains that are usually grade separated (not on the road with the cars). They can run underground or on elevated rails above the roads too. They’re very similar to Trams, but are larger, faster, and usually designed to move more people longer distances. Their stops are usually more like every 600m-1800m apart.
Why have a distinction between these? Mostly because they do serve very different roles in the city. Their distinction is most visible once you leave the core downtown area. In the core, they both have a tendency to stop more often so they look similar. Once you leave downtown, the light rail starts booking it long and fast while the trams keep trying to stop every few blocks.
You’re very welcome. I like trains and I like being pedantic. You’ve come to the right place for detailed explanations of train variants.
Have a good one!
Nope. A light rail has its own dedicated right of way.
An idiot can buy a light rail car and use it as a streetcar in mixed traffic, but then it’s can it, wait for it, a streetcar.
It depends on the type of light rail.
Here in my city the trams share some of the roads with regular traffic, which not only means they can get caught in traffic (though they have priority where possible), but it also means the rails become a real tripping hazard for cyclists (over 800 injuries since 2015 at the last count). There’s been an active campaign to introduce more safety measures but the council has been reluctant to do anything about it.
The tramlines are such a well-known hazard to locals that they actually put people off from cycling, which is surely counter-productive.
It’s more reliable, usually runs on electric rather than buses, can run more frequent without causing congestion.
Only real con is that you need some time, money and maybe more space to add it
no one has ever said a light railway doesn’t pay for itself.
Most metro rail systems lose money. They cost more to operate than they generate in fare revenue.
This is OK because they provide a useful public service and should be funded by tax dollars. Light rail should not be expected to turn a profit. It should be expected to benefit the community it serves, which it generally does.
I want to know when the cars on the roads will have to turn a profit on a per-trip basis. People seem to demand that public transit be profitable for some insane reason, but in general never ask the cars pay their own way around town.
Both the roads and mass transit are services, just like the post office and the military. They’re costs of having civilization, not some kind of business enterprise the government is undertaking.
Both the roads and mass transit are services, just like the post office and the military. They’re costs of having civilization, not some kind of business enterprise the government is undertaking.
Kind of depends on how you look at it… If you consider that the government’s ultimate goal is to grow the economy so that it can collect more tax revenue, then the entire country is the government’s enterprise. Improving the enterprise’s infrastructure would seem like an obviously beneficial expenditure.
It’s more abstract, but the real question is whether spending more tax money on mass transit would benefit society more than if the money were spent on something else.
exactly.
you can't assess the merits of an integrated transport system by arguing which one one mode of transport betters all others.
some places /routes (at some times) might work best with one option.
but most places / routes will be better served by several types at least at some times of day.
buses are one of the most flexible public transport options, fill gaps in space between high capacity modes, and fill gaps in timetables, and they sometimes fill gaps in affordability usually being cheaper.
give them bus lanes and priority at junctions, and they're a lot cheaper and more flexible than trams.
i always think that a busy packed bus lane is making the business case for a train, but filling the gap in the meanwhile. and sometimes a train is impractical.
they didn't only get rid of most of the trams in the uk due to cars wanting more roads. it was also because buses were cheaper and provided much better routes that could flex to travelers needs..
Light rail is infinitely more expensive to construct and it only takes one delay/accident and all subsequent trains after cause a log jam…vs a bus which can route around it.
A better solution uses corridors dedicated to buses that are electric powered.
Something like this was done in Colombia with these routes being connected by ground hubs, similar to subway stations.
Ah yes, and we can put those corridors underground in a big circle.
Like some kind of hyper-loop!
Electric busses are actually a lot more complex logistically than electric trains. With a train, you just need a bunch of big-ass transformers and overhead wires. Expensive to install, but very reliable and relatively low maintenance over many years.
Batteries on the other hand are heavy, relatively fragile, degrade quickly, and very expensive. With a 100KWh EV, about 1/3 of the total cost is the battery, so it would likewise increase the cost of a bus.
Charging is another problem, instead of the whole system using energy real-time, you now need a distribution system that can take hundreds of busses at night and charge them all back up, requiring a massive amount of power in a somewhat short time. While it’s nice that energy is generally cheaper at night, you still need the infrastructure that can take that load.
So, it’s not to say that there’s no place for them, just that our main focus needs to be on rail in most places. There are lots of low-density places with cheap power and temperate weather that absolutely need BEV busses, but a lot more with challenging weather, older grids, and medium density that are a better fit for rail.
Trolley buses do exist…
That’s like saying a ship is more expensive than a car. It depends.
A tram is not „infinitely“ (what absurd statement is that anyway) more expensive than a bus.
Construction cost is not everything, and they’re not even that much higher, you’ve also need to consider service life (much longer with trains), energy cost per passenger mile (much lower with trains thanks to the lower resistance), etc.
What is best is always depending on the specific circumstances.
The biggest limitation of buses is capacity, and a highly used tram is cheaper per passenger mile than a bus. Try replacing the S-Bahn in Berlin with BRT, see how far that gets you. You’d probably need to bulldoze a new highway… speaking of which:
Germany, is actually hellbent on building a highway right through its capital Berlin, which currently clocks in at 700 milion € for 3.2 km. I expect the whole thing to end at ~2 bn € for ~7 km.
So I think the costs of public transport are really not the issue people should be focusing on.
Rail has some advantages. Efficiency, Tyre dust. Long term cost. It’s a bit harder for the next government to dismantle it. Higher capacity, more predictable path/easier to give intersection priority. Much much easier to automate if given dedicated right of way. Better accessibility.
Rubber wheels have advantages too. Quieter, more flexible (especially with a buffer battery), lower per-vehicle cost can increase the number of services.
I think the first goal should be getting any service that doesn’t get stuck in traffic. Then grade separation and consider the tradeoffs for rail.
I have no idea why you’re directing this question at me.
London has the tube. It does not need a tram.
Obviously buses are needed to get people to the tram/tube/train stations.
This thread has precisely fuck all to do with London. London has very good public transport already. It’s everywhere else that is expected to do without.
Featured image © dzphotogallery / Adobe Stock For a year we’ve been tracking most of the buses and trams in The West Midlands; the UK city region centred on Birmingham....
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