fresh

On the future of Lemmy vs reddit

https://sh.itjust.works/post/2334723

On the future of Lemmy vs reddit - sh.itjust.works

Please indulge a few shower thoughts I had: 1. I wouldn’t worry about Lemmy having as many users as reddit in the short term. Success is not just a measure of userbase. A system just needs a critical mass, a minimum number of users, to be self-perpetuating. For a reddit post that has 10k comments, most normal people only read a few dozen comments anyways. You could have half the comments on that post, and frankly the quality might go up, not down. (That said, there are many communities below that minimum critical mass at the moment.) 2. Lemmy is now a real alternative. When reddit imploded Lemmy wasn’t fully set up to take advantage of the exodus, so a lot of users came over to the fediverse and gave up right away. There were no phone apps, the user interface was rudimentary, and communities weren’t yet alive. Next time reddit screws up in a high profile way, and they will screw up, the fediverse will be ready. 3. Lemmy has way more potential than reddit. Reddit’s leadership has always been incompetent and slow at fixing problems. The fediverse has been very responsive to user feedback in comparison.

Aug 6, 2023 at 8:33pmWeb
Show threadErismi14Aug 6, 2023
Reddit has always had changes that made people want to leave. Removing CSS was the first that comes to mind. Now that lemmy exists it could be seen as a new platform to jump to every time reddit does something dumb or anti user. I have high hopes for lemmy
Show threadfreshAug 6, 2023
For me, getting rid of the old reddit design as default was pretty egregious. Usability tanked if I wasn’t logged in.
Show threadRepossess6855Aug 6, 2023
By design sadly, to collect that juicy, juicy user data.
Show threadEl BartoAug 6, 2023
When i.reddit.com was gone, that did it for me.
Show threadCorrodedAug 6, 2023
  • Lemmy is now a real alternative. When reddit imploded Lemmy wasn’t fully set up to take advantage of the exodus, so a lot of users came over to the fediverse and gave up right away. There were no phone apps, the user interface was rudimentary, and communities weren’t yet alive. Next time reddit screws up in a high profile way, and they will screw up, the fediverse will be ready.

    • I definitely think having mobile apps is an essential step. I was looking at alternative platforms such as Raddle.me but using a mobile browser was an extra hurdle (similar to using the official Reddit app) that kept me from regularly checking in.

  • Lemmy has way more potential than reddit. Reddit’s leadership has always been incompetent and slow at fixing problems. The fediverse has been very responsive to user feedback in comparison.

    • I could see this causing issues later. We’ve already seen issues a rise with some instances using the .ml and not being updated immediately.

    Defederation is another beast all together. Most of an instance might be fine but a few problematic communities could create problems leading to arguments and, as much as I hate the term, drama.

    Show threaddanieltonAug 6, 2023

    I definitely think having mobile apps is an essential step. I was looking at alternative platforms such as Raddle.me but using a mobile browser was an extra hurdle (similar to using the official Reddit app) that kept me from regularly checking in.

    I agree. Some of the alternatives to Reddit are vehemently against mobile apps (ahem, tildes), so I doubt those will ever take off. Not everybody sits in front of a computer all day. But I think some of those don’t actually want a big userbase, which seems counterproductive for a forum, but whatever.

    Lack of an API is what’s keeping me from using kbin, honestly. I know they’re working on it, but Lemmy already had an API long before the Reddit protests started.

    Show threadNikkiAtNightAug 6, 2023
    I'm using the Artemis app for kbin right now. They have it all ready to ship they just need to tie some stuff together before the main instance kbin.social is upgraded to support the api. The public beta for artemis just came out and has the api features enabled through the "test" instance artemis.camp, which still federates with everyone else. With the pace being made they should be done in the next week or two
    Show threadTheSpookiestUserAug 7, 2023

    I agree. Some of the alternatives to Reddit are vehemently against mobile apps (ahem, tildes), so I doubt those will ever take off.

    Didn’t the RIF dev just release an app for Tildes?

    Show threaddanieltonAug 7, 2023
    Yes, there are apps for Tildes, but there isn’t an actual API for developers to use, and the owners of Tildes don’t seem to want them around. I’ve read in multiple places that they believe mobile apps go against everything they stand for.
    Show threadTheSpookiestUserAug 7, 2023
    Fair enough, I didn’t know that.
    Show threadkopper [they/them]Aug 7, 2023
    it’s more that they believe the mobile site should work well enough that an app shouldn’t be needed. also the one person behind tildes is doing it as a side project next to a full-time job (after experimenting with donations in the early days of the site). the fact that there isn’t an api is mainly due to time constraints (and to make sure when there is one it is done properly)
    Show threadBoababAug 7, 2023

    the owners of Tildes don’t seem to want them around. I’ve read in multiple places that they believe mobile apps go against everything they stand for.

    It might not be intentional, but you're spreading misinformation that could be prevented with a quick search.

    The (sole) developerbof Tildes specificlly stated that Tildes will have an API and that they don't want to discourage apps. Their philosophy is just that the official way of visiting Tildes should be the same lightweight website as the desktop. A solution that works on every device. To me, this makes a lot of sense. It fits the philosophy of Tildes, results in less code to maintain and ensures the experience is the same on every device.

    Source from the Tildes Documentation:

    The site is the main mobile interface, not an app

    Tildes is a website. Your phone already has an app for using it—it's your browser.

    Tildes will have a full-featured API, so I definitely don't want to discourage mobile apps overall, but the primary interface for using the site on mobile should remain as the website. That means that mobile users will get access to updates at exactly the same time as desktop ones, and full f

    Site Implementation

    Tildes Docs
    Show threadcrunchycircuitAug 6, 2023

    Honestly, I think that best thing to do is just pick one or two communities that you really care about and invest a bit of your time. Make a post or two, have some back-and-forth with a friendly person in the comments. You don’t have to be a moderator to help build a community. Even just taking 30 seconds to make one post would be good enough, and might encourage someone else to make a post.

    I was always more of a lurker on Reddit, but I don’t think that’s really gonna be enough if we want this place to at least get to critical mass.

    Show threadleapingleopardAug 6, 2023
    And updoot! Quick n easy
    Show threadGhostfaceAug 6, 2023
    Well said, but I will say reddit felt more like being out in public. So you kept your distance and didn’t really interact, but here feels more like being at someone’s house that you know. At the moment. The federation aspect is a different wrinkle but ultimately will lead to a better experience overall. No ads is a huge bonus!
    Show threadiquanyinAug 6, 2023
    i joined and am using memmy, both this week. cant see how to post, only can see how to comment.
    Show threadnieceandtowsAug 7, 2023
    If you go to the community page, you’ll see a post button along with subscribe and about.
    Show threadiquanyinAug 10, 2023
    how do i get to the community page? and is that its name? do i look for “community page” or is it called something else? (i chose a random place to ask, its fine if you’re busy or don’t like to answer such basic stuff, i will eventually figure it all out.)
    Show threadnieceandtowsAug 11, 2023
    If you tap on the list button at the top left corner, you’ll see list of your subscribed communities. You can tap on any of them to go to that community page. You can also tap on the community name on a post in the main feed and go to that community. Lastly, you can also go to the search page and search for a community and go to its page. Let me know if you’re facing any difficulties.
    Show threadiquanyinAug 15, 2023
    than
    Show threadBlamemetaAug 6, 2023
    Yeah. Ive picked /conservative. Ive been posting a mixture of fluff and actual posts. Early days, but it seems to be picking up speed. Just post, it works!
    Show threadcrunchycircuitAug 6, 2023
    Best of luck growing the community! I wish you all the success. :)
    Show threadBlamemetaAug 6, 2023
    Thanks! I hope you successfully build whatever community you’re building too!
    Show threadcrunchycircuitAug 6, 2023
    Thanks! :)
    Show threadnew_acct_who_disAug 7, 2023

    I’d check his post history before engaging. He’s trying to rebuild a spammy, dishonest right wing space in Lemmy.

    He’s free to do so, but it’s just going to bring in trolls, bots, bad faith arguments, and extreme posting to sell shit.

    I get that it’s inevitable, but let’s be careful what we’re encouraging.

    Show threadd4rknusw1ldAug 7, 2023
    Russian bot farms need some more ukranian drones.
    Show threadapplejacksAug 7, 2023
    I’ve seen that it’s already gotten invaded, and most posts are mass downvoted.
    Show threadnew_acct_who_disAug 7, 2023
    What’s the value of posting “fluff”? If you’re just trying to get engagement for engagement sake, why?
    Show threadCrulAug 7, 2023
    Agree! that’s what I’ve been doing: Trying to build critical mass for small communities : fediverse
    Trying to build critical mass for small communities : fediverse

    Show threadGhostfaceAug 6, 2023

    Infiltration… As I’ve moved over from reddit the community feels much more open to discussion rather than comment section filled internal jokes.

    We just need Lemmy users who are daywalkers to post links into reddit. Or recreate certain communities here, but bringing over the good and not the toxic. Ama, but maybe amapolitics bringing more hyper local awareness to the masses?

    Quality over quantity any day

    Show threadlily33Aug 6, 2023

    To me, the smaller userbase is actually a real problem. I’m willing to stick it out and hope it grows. But for over half of the subreddits I subscribe to, the corresponding lemmy communities have 0 posts this last week.

    Yes, I don’t need 10k comments on my posts. But memes or mainstream news was never the big value of reddit for me - I can get these anywhere. Instead it is about the niche communities with a few thousand subscribers. And for now, I still have to use reddit for them.

    Show threadwhatisallthisAug 6, 2023

    Yeah the very top post on hot right now has 9 comments lmao.

    There is no one here. I mean I love the platform and the apps. I don’t go to Reddit anymore on my phone. But there’s no one here.

    If I don’t go to Reddit at least once per day I’m going to miss news and events that are important to me.

    Show threadSl00kAug 6, 2023
    Just FYI hot is probably the worst way to browse for news and events, I’ve found top of 6h is far better if you check often, Active if you check every 24 hrs ish.
    Show threadagent_flounderAug 7, 2023
    That’s been my experience as well. I usually do top 6 or top 12.
    Show threadgullibleAug 6, 2023
    That’s mostly on the sorting algorithms being slightly fucky wucky. Lemmy has enough activity to satisfy me, but lacks niche communities.
    Show threadkatAug 6, 2023
    If you sort by “active” there should be posts with more comments. The “hot” sorting is not really representative for how active users on lemmy are, since it favours younger posts over older posts with lots of comments. You can read the details of the reasoning here .
    Ranking Algorithm

    Show threadDeanFoggAug 6, 2023
    I swap between active hot and popular. Seems to work well
    Show threadThe Picard ManeuverAug 6, 2023

    I’ve noticed that “Hot” turns the front page over pretty quickly, which means you see more in your feed, but posts are bumped down before the comments start piling up.

    Whenever I’ve posted anything that has made it to the top of Hot, the majority of the comments come in after it has dropped down (which happens after like, 1hr).

    Show threadConstipatedWatsonAug 7, 2023

    Reddit has a lot of international subreddits which don’t really exist here on Lemmy (they have like 10 users and they almost never post).

    Reddit has huge alive communities. I’m having a ball here on Lemmy, but I too must check Reddit once a day to know if important stuff happened.

    Sure, someone could say I should work on jumpstarting these Lemmy communities, but I’ve only able to to what I can so far (that is, replying to posts and joining the conversation)

    Show threadwhatisallthisAug 7, 2023

    Yeah the issue is that with large online communities, your largest user group is always going to be that of least engagement.

    So users who just read stuff is your biggest group. Then comes users who made an account. Then comes users who up and downvote. And last comes users who post.

    It makes it very hard to grow a new social media platform.

    Show threadflipthetubeAug 6, 2023

    I’m in the same boat, but rather than just going back to Reddit for those communities, I’ve opted to lose those communities and conversations entirely.

    And I resent Reddit for that in a major way. Fuck them.

    Show threadHobbitFoot Aug 6, 2023
    Yeah, you need people to post and comment to develop a community. I’ve got one community where I post five times a week, but I’ve only had two posts from other people and only one person commented on a post.
    Show threadcrunchycircuitAug 7, 2023

    I checked it out, and tbh I think that the post requirements are pretty restrictive, especially considering that Lemmy is relatively new and doesn’t yet have a critical mass of users.

    Assuming that the axiom that states that only about 10-20% of users actually post is true, you’re already facing an uphill battle in terms of growing your subscriber base. On top of that, the community theme (art with no context) sounds like an interesting endeavor, but it’s also pretty niche. It’s gonna be hard to find the community organically. Or for your community to find you, organically.

    Also, by requiring that the post be a non-flash photograph of the work of art as displayed, you’ve placed additional barriers in front of those 10-20% of content contributors. I mean, how often does the average person go to the museum? Also, does the poster have to have taken the image themselves, or is finding and posting an image you found online (that is a non-flash photo of an artwork as-is and adheres to the community rules and post guidelines) acceptable? The last sentence that reads, “Mods reserve the right to ask where you’ve taken the photo of the art.” seems to imply that the image in the post needs to have been taken by the person posting it.

    I enjoy the premise/theme of the community, but I feel that you’re either going to have to lower the barrier to participate/contribute, or you’re going to just have to accept that it’s gonna take a fair amount of time before your community grows into a self-sustaining body. It’s like you’re taking care of a newborn pet, and, at least in the beginning, you’re gonna have to feed your community/pet with fresh posts pretty often. You’re also probably going to have to advertise your community when it’s relevant.

    Remember that at the start, even Reddit went out of their way to populate their front page with posts from various dummy accounts to create the illusion of activity. Anyway, best of luck with your community, I sincerely hope you’re able to retain and grow the community you’re looking for.

    For those that want to check it out: lemmy.world/c/[email protected] (I forget how to link the community…)

    No Context Art - Lemmy.world

    Post art that you’ve seen in a museum or gallery without context. Comment on that art without context. Note: the picture must be a photo taken of the art as displayed, no high quality scans are allowed. Mods reserve the right to ask where you’ve taken the photo of the art.

    Show threadCommunityLinkFixerBotAug 7, 2023
    Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
    Show threadHobbitFoot Aug 7, 2023
    Lack of posts is one thing, but lack of comments is something else. People seem to be engaging with the posts with the like button, but that is all that is happening for now.
    Show threadNathanielThomasAug 7, 2023

    And for now, I still have to use reddit for them

    But you were banned from them right?

    Right? That’s why we’re all here?

    Show threadlily33Aug 7, 2023
    Firefox + ublock (it has filters that block the “install app” on mobile, but need to be enabled from the settings) is useable.
    Show threadRolando_CuevaNov 12, 2023
    What about now?
    Show threadlily33Nov 12, 2023
    Still visiting several subreddits that don’t have corresponding active lemmy communities. Once of them actually has an “official” lemmy community (run by the same mods) but none of the people moved over, so it’s empty,
    Show threadBoozillaAug 6, 2023

    A huge userbase like reddit’s is both a pro and a con. The big advantages include diversity of content (especially niche/hobby stuff), more content, and higher frequency of new content overall.

    But it comes with some pretty big disadvantages, too. Moderation is difficult so they are happy to let a small number of “power mods” run everything. Subs that were fun & interesting in the past…after they hit the front page and become popular they go downhill quickly. Divisive USA-centric politics.

    And of course the “asshole filter” effect: where the assholes drive away the non-assholes, so the concentration of assholes is always going up.

    Show threadNathanielThomasAug 7, 2023
    One of Reddit’s biggest issues is mods controlling dozens of subreddits. So that means it feels a lot like corporate America where one company has their editorial say in everything.
    Show threadwalnutwalrusAug 6, 2023

    When reddit imploded Lemmy wasn’t fully set up to take advantage of the exodus

    I think it was good enough but now is better maybe

    Show threadLittle1LostAug 6, 2023
    It is definetly better
    I remember that the website had first that new posts pop up at the top so a user dont have to reload the page, but made with the influx of people /new very unusable because after seeing something cool i had to follow it every few seconds or open it in a new tab
    Show threadNavarianAug 6, 2023

    Honestly, I don’t know if it’s the fewer users, the lack of trolls, the newer apps I’ve been forced to use or the topics that I’ve been getting into since joining Lemmy. But I have been considerably more active here both commenting and posting, than I ever was on Reddit.

    It may have started as a way to do my part for the growth of Lemmy, but it’s not been about that for me for some time now.

    Show threadbighatchesterAug 6, 2023
    I tend the comment more on posts with less comments. So if a post has thousands of comments already I’m not to going to leave a comment and will probably just read the top couple comments
    Show threadAFK BRB ChocolateAug 6, 2023
    Others have touched on it, but for me it’s like the difference between speaking up in a conversation between people I don’t know at a house party, and speaking up in a giant auditorium when the person on stage is asking for inputs. The smaller scale makes it a bit more comfortable and I feel more like what I have to say isn’t already being said by a hundred other people.
    Show threadagent_flounderAug 7, 2023
    Totally agree although sometimes Reddit was a lot more like speaking up in a bar full of angry drunks right after a group of neonazis burst in and started slap fighting everyone.
    Show threadNavarianAug 7, 2023
    Yeah, this is a great analogy, definitely agree here.
    Show threadPeleSpiritAug 6, 2023
    I think one of the issues at Reddit was that if you said thank to someone or thought they had a good idea, it was bad reddiquette. Here that culture isn’t as prevalent and I it adds to the pleasantness. Maybe encourage meaningful thank yous or I agrees and people say why instead of “K” or “same,” but don’t shit on people that do that in the future.
    Show threadgrueAug 6, 2023

    There were no phone apps

    Jerboa be like:

    (I realize I’m posting this with a very real risk of somebody replying “yes,” but Jerboa was, in fact, usable on June 12.)