HunterBidensLapDogDumb Trump supporters shoot America in the foot
CandelestineImportant to remember, in many cases it was a goal, not a side effect. When someone lived out their life and they’re kinda miserable and unfulfilled, they might justifiably hate our world, in a sense. There’s really only one way to take revenge on it, and that’s to perpetuate and worsen the shittiness so that nobody can hope to escape it.
Misery loves company, or so the saying goes.
Says a lot about the people that absolutely don’t want for student debt to be cleared in the USA because they had to clear it themself.
snooggumsThe worst part is that the student debt they paid off was a small portion of the debt that people cannot afford to pay off now because the same people defunded universities.
When I was a young kid a summer job at minimum wage could pay for a year of state college. By the time I attended a summer job paid for a semester. Now a summer job at the minimum wage will barely pay for books, since the minimum wage has stagnated and tuition goes up year after year.
hoodatninjaThere’s some truth here but rocketing university costs are a little more complex than that.
More complex, sure, but that is the primary reason.
I’m not sure I agree. It’s had a huge impact on community colleges and a lot of state schools, but the issues really are varied and impact different schools/states in different ways and to different degrees.
Make no mistake, the democrats are better for schools than republicans. But we can’t just blame every single thing on republicans or we sound like them calling everyone they disagree a commie in the 2010’s again.
You should cite some of the other reasons rather than just saying they exist. For example administrative staffing costs have risen dramatically over the last few decades. The upper management of universities now make CEO like wages. Universities are competing on amenities more than they are academics. Nice housing and recreational complexes are the norm while full time professors are all being replaced by adjuncts who aren’t paid a living wage. The economics are broken.
I did cite multiple pieces in my follow up comment because both of us were speaking in generalities.
While correct, the real problem came when they made banks unable to refuse college loans. Suddenly, colleges could set whatever price they wanted, and the banks had to agree. That skyrocketed costs and directly led to the current situation.
Of course, it really started even further back than that when we allowed education to be privately funded rather than a public good.
Semi-Hemi-DemigodThe fact that people don't understand that more free education means a better life for everybody is really frustrating
We don't bat an eye at having tax-funded libraries (well the GOP is starting to...) because we have internalized as a society that they're a good thing. I have never understood why we can't do the same with schools.
If Republicans didn't spend the majority of their energy on destroying anything publicly funded I would stop blaming them first for destroying everything publicly funded.
You don't need to stop blaming them because they deserve it. But I am saying this explanation is overly reductionist. If you completely removed the GOP from the equation and restored or even increased funding, universities would still have a huge widespread cost issue.
Deflecting from the biggest part of the issue is why so little progress is made in solving complex issues.
I honestly am not interested in this discussion if you are going to alternate between generalizations and sound bites man. If you think it's the single biggest driver then you need to provide sources. I feel I have demonstrated that I clearly get the GOP's role in this issue - it is substantial. Yet you seem to just blow through everything I write in a way that indicates you aren't really engaging with me at all or, frankly, reading what I'm writing.
I was down to have a discussion but this has become exhausting and repetitive, so again, have a wonderful day. Truly. I am not mad or being sarcastic with you. This just isn't productive anymore and I'd like to move on. I made my points and you can do with them what you will.
They'd have a lot harder time justifying massive administrative pay to a funding subcommittee than they do justifying it to a bunch of trustees who are also rich assholes and know they can charge as much as they want for tuition because everyone just gets loans.
They'd have a lot harder time justifying massive administrative pay to a funding subcommittee than they do justifying it to a bunch of trustees
You say that yet take a look at our military budget bloat that is in large part due to congress wanting the jobs in their districts/states and other borderline corrupt influences.
The Department of Education is audited regularly. The DoD isn't.
The same org that is under attack by republicans, mind you. A
I don't think it's particularly complex.
They captured state houses and gutted state budgets for direct funding to universities. Simultaneously, democrats tried to make up the difference at the national level by pushing for and getting pell grants, which are dedicated grant funds. This means there's a dedicated amount of federal funds on the table every year, which mitigates against the market forces that would otherwise push tuition prices back down.
Students are then encouraged to take personal loans to cover the manufactured shortfall. Students can't discharge this in bankruptcy, which encourages bad lending practices.
Almost all of this is very normal cause and effect with plenty of analogous historical examples, so even if we the idiot people don't get it, you can be pretty sure that our highly educated and wealthy elected officials knew exactly what would happen.
If this were all too confusing or complex to know the outcome, then at least some of the time we'd see benefit randomly go to the individual. But it doesn't, ever.
That last paragraph is a mess. Nice.
Sure was. Was using swipe typing in bright sunlight. Fixed a few of the glaring typos. Thanks!
I don't think it's particularly complex.
I'm trying to be polite here so I apologize if this seems overly blunt. I think calling it "not particularly complex" is pretty striking. We are talking about a network of around 7000 schools (a little over 1000 CC's and over 5000 4-year universities, not including trade schools) consisting of public, private, and religious institutions across 50 states with their own sets of laws. There is nothing simple about it.
We are both speaking in generalities so I'm going to link a few secondary sources as well as a primary source on this.
1
2 - a Forbes piece discussing the above
3 - Solid piece by
4 - A nice short piece from NPR about a decade ago which gives us some context about the post-war period's massive influence on how colleges developed and expanded
I could keep just dumping links but I think those 3 are a good start. Reduced state funding absolutely contributes to the problem in a large way. There's no attempt here to downplay that, and that reduced funding is largely done by Republicans, as they tend to do with any education funding. But to say that is far and away the biggest driver is to over-simplify the issue and to ignore decades of other trends, such as rising operating costs, ballooning investments to be more attractive without a sustainable plan for maintaining facilities/programs (HUGE issue at private universities in particular), the huge push by the federal government to get people into schools no matter what predatory loans they got 17 and 18 year old's to sign (everyone should have access and the federal government should help but we let wolves in with the sheep with the way we structured it), and so many other factors contribute to this issue.
You know what would help with rising costs and increased enrollment?
Not eliminating funding.
I have a feeling you aren't really reading what I'm writing anymore or at least are just skimming over it and then making your points, so I'm just going to call it a day here. I put a lot of thought and effort into what I wrote and I was hoping you would as well given we are having a discussion. But based on this and your other comment, it's just degenerating into sarcastic quips that are becoming increasingly less relevant to the discussion.
Have a good one man.
Let me clarify. It is complicated - there are a lot of moving parts, as you say. But again, that is 100% design choice.
Complexity means that there's some level of uncertainty. I don't believe that there's any uncertainty with how we have structured education. It works consistently to force individuals to shoulder the burden, while providing benefit to the people who need it least. If you implement these policies, you'll get the same outcome every time.
Sure I generally agree with this