btaf45Marijuana addiction is real. Those struggling often face skepticism.
ren (a they/them)Not too surprising. A good rule of thumb is, anything that gives you joy, happiness, or helps with pain & sadness, can be addictive. It can definitely be used as crutch vs. dealing with the underlying issues (such as anxiety).
However, there’s a difference between that kind of addiction and chemical addiction which I don’t see mentioned in the article. It seems to focus on the crutch aspect, not things like physical ailments from withdrawals and that sort of thing. It’s hard to tell.
Generally, moderation should be the key and if you are using it to avoid things that maybe therapy would help with - that’s not ideal.
CylusthevirusFor some opioids withdrawal can be life threatening. There's a distinct contrast between chemical and psychological dependence.
Absolutely right! It can be a pretty great crutch, used sporadically, but constant use signals something else to work on. And depending on the issue, constant use can just make it slightly more comfortable to stay in that crappy state. (Ask me how I know, lol)
neuromancerPeople that get addicted to marijuana are not remotely as fucked up as people on alcohol or hard drugs, people take the addiction a lot move serious when you turn into a violent psychotic when withdrawal kicks in.
Know folks who spend 500+/month on weed and then can’t afford to live. Just because they don’t go trainspotting doesn’t mean it isn’t as fucked.
NightoftheLemmyBecause they are addicts with money or are they escaping bigger issues? Genuinely curious! (Not challenging you)
Dunno. Got cut out because didn’t approve of lighting up every 30m.
Yeah, but that's usually escapism. It's not the weed that puts them in a bad spot. They probably need to fix other parts of their life. I know of folks who ignore health and financial responsibility to play video games too. I wouldn't blame the video games though.
We agree. Only that one German kid who hates keyboards went trainspotting. People can peacefully play games into unemployment and homelessness same way they can smoke themselves into it.
I don’t know how I feel about this. I regularly smoke/use edibles, and I get that it can easily become habitual. You get home afterwork, smoke a bowl, and get on with your life.
But not once have I ever felt that I NEED to smoke. I’ve been using for over 4 years now. I grow my own. I make my own oils and edibles. I’ve never felt that it’s something that I need to do. For example, I can very easily stop for a few weeks and suffer literally zero withdrawal from it. So, I don’t really understand what’s so “addicting” about it.
downpunxxas an experiment, go three days without any THC, then come back here and let us know how you're doing
the same that leads to the harder to beat parts of nicotine addiction: A mixture of having a habit and using it as a coping mechanism. If putting the green glasses on becomes how you deal with negativity in your life, cutting the stuff loose will be incredibly hard. This is the main issue with most mind-altering things, be it nicotine, caffeine, or even fitness exercises. The other part is that an addiction is often just a habit that has gotten too far. This can make an addiction out of literally anything.
By your argument then, it’s not the weed thats addicting. It’s a human, habit-forming mechanism. You said it yourself, that you “can make an addiction out of literally anything.”
So, I’m still at the same impasse. Why blame weed for what is clearly a human issue? It seems to me that we need to figure out better coping mechanisms, and how to break bad habits. Articles like this will only demonize cannabis, especially in a time when things are about to change for the better.
You omitted one really crucial thing of what I said:
This is the main issue with most mind-altering things,
The level of mind-altering a substance can achieve determines the extent of this effect. So THC is bound to be more addictive than -say- caffeine or melatonin supplements. That's not "demonizing". Your reflex to downplay the issue in order to defend the status of THC in society is - at least in part - responsible for people who suffer from an addiction to THC, since their fellow users will be the greatest sceptics if they are told one has gotten addicted. Yet not, because they can't fathom that weed might be a thing one can get addicted to, but because they don't want to jeopardize the legality of weed.
You make several good points, and apologize for omitting your crucial point. I agree that anything that provides some “effect” could become psychologically addicting (for example, you could become addicted to NSAIDs). And I agree that I downplay THC addiction due to my personal anecdotal experience. But I’m hesitant to believe that the THC (or cannabis, in general) is the root cause for the addiction, and not the human that uses it. Would we treat someone for THC addiction, specifically? Or would it be better to treat the habit-forming characteristics of said person?
I think searching for "The root cause" is moot. Imagine a car that has a construction flaw in the driver side door. A strut in the door breaks easily when rammed and forms a spike towards the driver. If you are driving this car, you are more likely to be injured in a crash than in a car that does not have this flaw, right? Yet, the "root cause" of your injury would not be the construction flaw, but the force applied to the door by the other vehicle. Now imagine fans of the car after this had lead to a tragic accident, telling everyone that it wasn't the flaw in the car, the driver of the other car should have been more careful. They are right, technically. Yet, denying the higher likelyhood of inflicting such an injury due to the specific characteristics of the car would be missing the point somewhat either, woudn't it? I think it's the same here.
We have to acknowledge that weed will be more likely to cause an addiction (not only of the habit variety) more easily than other things. Going off on the "but weed itself does not form addictions" bandwagon only belittles those who have an addiction from it from the perspective of the addicted themselves.
By that logic, nicotine is hardly addictive, neither is cocaine nor caffeine. When talking about addiction, we sometimes tend to only count the physical addiction formed by things like Heroin as "caused by the drug". Yet, psychological addiction is the more prevalent type of addiction and it is way more likely to form - regardless of one's tendency to form addictions in the first place - in substances that get you high in some way.
You didn't spell out any reason why that's exceptional. You literally used working out as an example. At that point, any form of self-soothing is a mind altering addiction. Tapping your foot while waiting would fit that definition if exercise does.
There's nothing exceptional between being addicted to marijuana, just like fast food or gambling. It's purely habit, not the item itself. It's psychological, not physiological. Physiological addiction exists. That's why withdrawal is a thing for certain addictions and I don't just mean "aw, they're in a bad mood cause they stopped smoking weed" or "oh, they went on a diet so they're cranky."
Gambling isn't the core problem when someone is addicted to gambling. Theyre filling a void with the wrong thing. It's, again, something for emotional therapy. But it says nothing about marijuana.
Nicotine addiction isn't the same. That's physiological. Same with alcohol. It's literally changing your body chemistry and that creates the addiction. This is emotional/psychological addiction. It's like video games or sex. You can become addicted to it, but it's the exception, not the rule.
That’s a good point. I guess I have an issue with labeling psychological addictions to specific things then as I dont think it’s so much the “this thing” that’s addicting as it’s something that you’ve psychologically latched onto.
Treating a generalized psychological addiction seems like it would be pretty straightforward in terms of treating vs a chemical or physiological addiction. But I’m not a therapist, and I’m sure there is a great reason as to why these things are labeled the way they are. Apologies for my stubbornness on this subject.
You can be addicted to the feeling of mellow and high that marijuana gives you, that’s psychological addiction. It’s the same as how you can become addicted to eating oreos. You can stop eating oreos or smoking weed and physically be fine, no withdrawals. But psychologically, you may feel the need to go back to it.
If you can be “psychologically addicted” to anything, then why label marijuana specifically as “addicting”? We don’t label wintergreen mints as psychologically addicting, even though some people will routinely crush a bag of them in one sitting. It seems that we’re misattributing the human, habit-forming parts of ourselves (or possibly our need for pleasure) as a negative-characteristic of marijuana, and I don’t think that’s being genuine to the problems.
Articles like this only further the demonization of marijuana and give cause to ban it.
Because it’s still a thing. Gaming addiction and porn addiction is only psychologically addicting, yet nobody ever argues against those terms.
That last bit is not accurate. Search those terms with “is x real?” or “x controversy.” There is absolutely a debate rn about what constitutes addiction, and those things are regularly brought up.
For decades, weed’s deleterious health effects were exaggerated, experts said, leading to excessive criminalization
This line fron the article is exactly why I’m skeptical. I had to sit through tons of middle school and high school programs that lied to me about the physiological effects of marijuana. This article itself opens with an anecdote about one individual, but fails to identify any academic study suggesting physiological addiction because… There is none.
Psychological addiction is real. There’s a reason that in most places any gambling advertisements have to include a warning and a hotline. The problem is that these sensationalist articles never make the distinction between psychological and physiological addiction. This article mentions when the case study first tried marijuana, but fails to detail the circumstances of her life, her personality, and other factors that can contribute to psychological addiction.
Add in that the medical marijuana industry is trying to replace the very physiological addictive (and profitable) pain medications… Add that to the years of lies in schools and media… Forgive me for not trusting this BS at all.
This this this.
Also, rat studies indicate that environment plays a large role in the symptoms we see as addiction - the inability to stop, constantly seeking more of the drug, etc. These symptoms tend to stop when the rats had adequate engagement, weren't overcrowded, etc. Even when they continued to have access to the drug, they tended to stop.
We saw something similar in humans after Vietnam. The soldiers over there were doing any and everything to avoid the horrors of war. Even when they came back with PTSD, we didn't see a huge uptick in drug addiction. This requires a lot more study, but there are some pretty good indications that people get addicted when their lives suck and they don't see any workable options available to change their situation. Addiction may be a disease based in despair more than an innate status in the brain.
Very anecdotal, but I know multiple people who are addicted. Could very well be psychological, but if they go more than a day or two without smoking they are terrible to be around. Which sucks because I’m stuck with
A) don’t be around them
B) be around them while they are baked and smell
C) be around them while they are terrible
I’ve been sticking with A for the time being, but it sucks because I feel like I’ve already lost a few friends when I stopped smoking and it seems like that is their whole life.
MillieHonestly, if I found out one of my friends saw me this way I’d rather they just get out of my life.
If the only way you can live your life is to be stoned 24/7, and you are a grouch going off the handle at every little thing without it, it would probably be best.
I’ve got nothing against smoking weed, but just like I don’t want to be around someone piss drunk all the time I don’t want to be around someone who is blitzed all the time. There is a time and a place.
That’s not me, but I don’t really feel like it’s particularly helpful to be in someone’s life if that’s the way you look at it. Especially if it’s a situation where your own standards have changed while theirs haven’t.
Honestly, I don’t really want to be spending my time around people who look down on me at all, full stop. Whatever the reason they may have, why have people in your life socially whose company you don’t enjoy? I used to put up with a lot of that, largely when I was broke and directionless, but it’s not really worth it. There are so many people out there, why not find some who are on the same page?
That doesn’t have to attempt to be a position of moral superiority or putting your nose up about lack of responsibility. It can just not be a good fit. Lots of people aren’t a good fit for one another.
Yeah keep away from people who look down on you or others, they’re doing it because they’re angry at you/the world and they will take it out on you every chance they get - doesn’t matter if their excuse is that you smoke, don’t dress how they like, listen to the wrong music for them, aren’t green enough or are too green… If they look down on you they will work to make their emotions reality by pushing you down.
It’s just a support network… peers that believe in you to do better things.
If you can’t take criticism then you have every right to shut out people who are concerned about you and toke instead.
I personally felt bad about myself when I was using weed to medicate. What was freedom became something I couldn’t escape from. Many people might not want to be where they are and want help to function. You never know if that person needs support.
I used weed to medicate when every drug my doctors gave me failed for years. Because of smoking weed every day for years, I lived long enough to take things that actually treat my problem, and was immediately able to drop my weed consumption as much as I liked. I do it maybe 2-3 times a week now. How do you tell someone who’s addicted from someone using it to medicate something else when nothing’s available, from the outside?
I also think the word “addiction” is so broadly used as to be practically useless at this point. I could stop weed, no problem. If I try to get off lithium, withdrawal city. But you don’t hear people talking about lithium addiction. Plus, if we’re using the same word for responses to heroin, weed, and porn, we need better vocabulary.
gmtomSo are you the same with people who need to be caffeinated 24/7 and are irritable asshole if they dont get their coffee?
I’ve met much fewer people like that, and when they do get their coffee they aren’t acting stupid and smelly.
I think this is your bias showing. Coffee addictions is way way way way WAY more comment than cannabis addiction. And yes, people on a caffeine high do act stupid and yes coffee fucking stinks. I’m guessing you drink coffee yourself?
Crazy that you’re getting downvoted for this. I smoke occasionally, but used to smoke daily and had to quit cold turkey for over a year. I refuse to have any marijuana on me and only smoke in the occasion that I’m out with friends and it’s offered to me. That ends up being about one toke a month. Irritability and bad mood for chronic smokers when they haven’t smoked enough to get withdrawals is common enough (in my experience from my own experience quitting and seeing others around me struggling as well).
Especially if someone has quit and finds the smell off putting or doesn’t like to be around people constantly baked this point of view is perfectly valid and adds to the conversation. Don’t downvote just because you personally disagree.
I’ve got nothing against smoking. I I have friends who still smoke, and the ones who aren’t addicted it isn’t a problem. A toke here and there to catch a buzz is no issue. It’s when it’s all the time, they can’t go without it, and they always smell like you just hotboxed something. I just don’t wanna be around that.
In an era of readily available vapes, theres no need to smell of weed all the time and as a fellow stoner I apologise on behalf of the community.
Semi-Hemi-DemigodI had hoped there would be a significant study I could read but it’s just the same reefer madness we’ve seen for decades.
It will be great when it’s finally fully legal and we can do real science on it.
Lifted_loweredYou’re right not to trust this BS at all. It’s straight up reefer madness propaganda. It’s widely acknowledged that anything pleasurable can be addictive, that doesn’t mean we need to ban gambling or alcohol or weed.
The other thing that's kind of questionable was that she was able to stop during her pregnancy. Like, when she knew she really she to stop, she did. This is basically in the same level as video game addiction. It's not the drug. It's the situation. Sure, she should be able to get help, but it's not really marijuana specific help she needs
Marijuana is considered physiologically addictive.
From UpToDate:
In a national survey of 1527 cannabis users who reported at least three times per week use, the most common symptoms of withdrawal were sleep difficulty (14 percent), irritability or anger (14 percent), anxiety (13 percent), headache (12 percent), and depressed mood (11 percent). Other symptoms such as restlessness, decreased appetite or weight loss, abdominal pain, shaking or tremors, sweating, and fever or chills have been described.
OderusI agree. From my personal experience, I smoke daily and each time I’ve travelled internationally, where I can’t bring my legal weed, I always suffer from poor sleep for a good week or so. It’s nothing serious but it’s noticeable.
Do you think that could have just been jet lag?
I know for sure one of the flights was 1hr 15min and just 1 time zone away so I don’t think jet lag was an issue that time but it could have made it worse. When I went to Cuba which was 6+ hours and 2 time zones away, yeah, I can jet lag being more an issue but I’m certain it’s a lack of weed.
Yeah man. We have people like Cheech & Chong, Willie Nelson or Snoop Dogg who for decades consume Marihuana. Did it destroy their life? Did it destroy their careers? Did it destroy their bodies? Nope! Nothing.
But artists who excessively drink alcohol or consume other drugs? They are wasted within years, broken bodies and souls who need years to get healthy again - if they don’t die before.
They are wasted within years, broken bodies and souls who need years to get healthy again
And then there’s Keith Richards…
Flying SquidYes, but we’re talking about humans, not whatever Keith must be.
A lot of people don’t realise this but he lives in a mansion and mostly does art every day, he’s not living a party lifestyle anymore and hasn’t for quite a while - it’s just the same equation we’ve seen time and time again; rich = great healthcare + relaxation = longevity and health. Like how Elon looks younger and healthier than he did 25 years ago, it’s just money.
AngrilyEatingMuffinsNah fam. I’m addicted, trust me. Trouble eating, sleeping, keeping food down. Have to titration down super slowly or get intense cravings. It sucks.
After about 8 years of daily smoking (and slowly smoking more and more because of tolerance building up) I decided to quit for various reasons.
I’m at about 10 days off cold turkey and I’m still struggling a lot. At the beginning was a big loss of appetite, trouble going to sleep and obviously the psychological desire to smoke. The worst part for me though is the intense anxiety, irritability and the lack of motivation to do anything. It feels like falling back into depression and slowly try crawling out of it.
Really disappointing to see so many people in here denying what I’m going through. Yes there’s always been propaganda against using, but there’s still some truth to it. I’m still glad that it’s legal here in Canada because it did help me at one point, but like every drug, you have to be careful.
They’re downplaying them possibly because you can’t die from marijuana withdrawal. It’s physically impossible, you can experience nasty side effects but you will live. Compare that to a heroin addict, pain pill, or alcoholic who has a high chance of literally dying if they stop cold turkey.
Talk to those with withdrawal symptoms from “real” problem drugs and it won’t even sound like the same experience. The other side is too, you’re approaching this pretty unscientifically. It’s possible you actually ARE depressed and aren’t use to feeling it full force because you were self medicating for years.
Ruaidhrigh Featherstonehaugh@RatMaster
I once read that nicotine was more addictive than heroin. I don't know whether that could be true, but as a former smoker myself, I can believe it.
Good luck.
@AngrilyEatingMuffins
QuokkaI’m not the biggest smoker, but still a few grams a day and withdrawal is real. There is a physical side to it, it’s pretty mild like with coffee but it’s certainly unenjoyable.
I smoke half an ounce a day. People expect me to be lazy, but I’m fully functional. I just can’t get out of bed if I DONT smoke lol.
You need one of those coffee mugs that’s like “Don’t talk to me until I’ve had my coffee” but with coffee marked out and replaced with weed.
Lmaooo facts
I vape daily, but I don’t really get withdrawal. If I go away on holiday or whatever having several weeks off is a breeze. However if it’s there at home and I have nothing else on, I will get high, so I accept I’m probably psychologically addicted, but I’ve made peace with that since I still work full time and pay my way so who’s it hurting.