Mastodawn

@helenczerski Well, what's your alternative to keeping the lights on? Look at the grid graphs - wind is great but at times is giving us almost nothing for days; adding more wind gen wont solve that. Fission is taking too long; and tidal is only just starting.

@penguin42 @helenczerski How will extracting gas and then selling it on the international market help keep lights on in the UK?

@steve @helenczerski If you look at the worst-case parts of the national grid predictions for the winter it's the bit where we rely on importing gas during a cold spell when everyone wants it; if we export the rest of the year but have it for the worst few weeks then it keeps the lights on in the worst cases.

@penguin42 @helenczerski I think you misread my question. How is selling gas on the INTERNATIONAL market going to help the UK grid?

If the gas extraction was done by the government and only used domestically then you might have a point. But it isn't - it's extracted by private industry who sell it to the highest bidder through the international market. The amount of gas the UK can produce isn't enough to significantly move international prices, so the only benefit is to profits, not the public

@steve @helenczerski You misread my answer. It's all about the couple of worst weeks - if the companies sell it internationally during the rest of the year that indeed helps their profits; as long as for those couple of weeks it's close by and can't be disrupted by storms/shipping issues/enemies.

@penguin42 @helenczerski Companies sell it internationally during the whole year, even when it is needed in the UK. The UK buys from the international markets at international market rates, no matter how much gas is extracted domestically. The only way that would change is if the gas were extracted by the government instead of by private companies. The only people who benefit from these gas extraction licences are those private businesses and their shareholders.

@steve @helenczerski The market isn't the whole story - there was big maintenance problems in Noway in Sept 2022, you get shipping delays in LNG due to storms around the US; those risks are reduced by having some local supply. And if it's under UK control and the lights are at risk of going out, they could always put an export restriction in.

@penguin42 @helenczerski Gas extracted from the North Sea isn't enough to meet domestic demand, so delays would still impact the UK. Those risks can be reduced by maintaining a proper national reserve. The current government decided to _reduce_ the amount of gas being held in reserve, which is one reason why the UK was so badly affected by the high market prices. There's absolutely no good reason to issue licences to open up new gas fields, other than driving private profits.

penguin42

@steve @helenczerski It'd be great to have enough for domestic demand; but even if you don't hit that, every bit you add locally lets you cope with another international screwup - one more delayed LNG delivery, one more failed Norwegian pipeline. I don't think you plan energy just based on your hatred of gas companies.

@penguin42 @helenczerski Or you could just increase the country's national reserves.

I don't have a hatred of gas companies. But I don't see a reason to grant them an opportunity to make bigger profits at everyone else's expense. There is no good reason to grant these licences - they harm the environment whilst providing no public good that could not otherwise be achieved.