Mastodawn

Compare american vs japanese craftsmen-cars

https://feddit.de/post/1950034

Compare american vs japanese craftsmen-cars - Feddit

Comparison left vs right for a craftsman who doesnt know which one he should buy: - l/r same bed size - r lower bed for way easier loading/unloading - r less likely to crash - r less fuel consumption and costs - r less expensive to repair - r easy to park - r easy to get around in narrow places like crowded construction sites or towns - r not participating in road arms race - l You get taken serious by your fellow carbrained americans because ““trucks”” are normalized and small handy cars are ridiculed. So unless you are a fragile piece of human, choose the right one.

High_Plains_Drifter Jul 29, 2023

Well, if you don’t care about comfort or safety go with the one on the right. I’d be curious to see how that KEI Truck holds up in a major collision with the average American SUV.

idiomaddict Jul 29, 2023

That’s the arms race

StandingCat Jul 29, 2023

This is so TRUE! My next car is gonna be a M4 Sherman, I’m afraid of how my average American SUV holds up to the Silverado 2500 HD on the left.

VanillaGorilla Jul 29, 2023

I'm more of a Leopard 2 guy, but get whatever keeps you safe out there.

Bik Jul 29, 2023

In normal countries being able to crush smaller cars during a collision isnt usually a selling point :/

TitanLaGrange Jul 29, 2023

In the US that’s actually a sport!

VanillaGorilla Jul 29, 2023

While true, that's not a point for the American car. That one won't stand a chance against a train, but nobody would come to the conclusion that everybody should buy a personal train to haul their lawnmower.

yA3xAKQMbq Jul 29, 2023

So you agree that American cars are built with only the passengers safety in mind and people don’t give a shit what happens to the other party?

Got_Bent Jul 29, 2023

I was thinking the opposite. I met with the business end of one of those little trucks while riding a tiny 50cc Honda scooter back in the nineties. We both walked away unscathed. When all the vehicles are small, catastrophic results seem to decline.

mrbubblesort Jul 29, 2023

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/what-drove-japan-s-remarkable-traffic-safety-turnaround

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-the-most-car-accidents

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/

Long story short, you're completely incorrect. Driving Japan is scientifically proven to be significantly safer than the US, and one of the reasons for that is the smaller size of car. To quote one of those articles:

For those who do drive, Japan offers vehicles appropriately scaled to urban life: the kei car, a class of vehicle considerably smaller and lighter than a US subcompact. Regulations restrict the size, power and speed of these microcars; typical modern versions might weigh around 2,400 pounds and have length of about 130 inches — some 4,000 lbs less and 100 inches shorter than a Ford F-150 truck, the best-selling American passenger vehicle.

From a safety perspective, kei cars have a lot going for them when compared with American-style SUVs and trucks. Their light weight generates less force in a collision, and their stubby front ends reduce driver blind spots. Research suggests that their occupants are equally safe as those inside full-sized vehicles.

Americans need to stop with the arms race of "bigger is safer", it's all bullshit.

What Drove Japan's Remarkable Traffic Safety Turnaround

Until the early 1970s, Japan endured a high rate of road fatalities. Now the nation boasts one of the world’s best traffic safety records. Here's why.

Bloomberg

ghariksforge Jul 29, 2023

Since Americans are obese, it makes sense that their cars are too.

Lightor Jul 29, 2023

I was looking for the “America bad” comment, was not disappointed. At least that carried over from reddit.

BeardedGingerWonder Jul 29, 2023

They are absolutely the driver in this market, like it or not.

ImFresh3x Jul 30, 2023

American cars were big way before they became obese. Americans have been more suburban and roads were developed before a lot of towns were, so roads are wide and big.

I love small cars. I’m I’m happy to live somewhere with small roads. And I care deeply about living in a walkable city, but obesity is not the reason the US has big cars and the UK has small cars. Similar obesity rate. Different roads.

DandomRude Jul 29, 2023

That obesity is quite common in the U.S. is true. Source.

Overweight & Obesity Statistics - NIDDK

Trends in overweight, obesity, and severe obesity for children, adolescents, and adults.

National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases

ImFresh3x Jul 30, 2023

Obesity rates in the UK are not far behind the US. 32%-38% according to WHO. The key difference is size of roads, civil planning, gas prices, and marketing. Not obesity.

A7thStone Jul 29, 2023

I was looking for the “America bad” comment comment, was not disappointed. At least our fragile egos carried over from Reddit.

Lightor Aug 10, 2023

Jesus, you people can’t stop yourselves lol. I love it.

TheTaj Jul 29, 2023

I agree with the sentiment of this post, but to be fair, you can also carry 3 or 4 passengers in the left vehicle, as opposed to only one in the right.

The main problem is the US fuel economy regulations actually encourage manufacturers to build bigger trucks and SUVs so they get classified into a category that has looser fuel economy requirements.

TheMauveAvenger Jul 29, 2023

I would bet the standard seating for the left truck is five, but you could easily cram six in. Unless the front row is connected, then it would be even more.

fluxion Jul 29, 2023

The extended cab version of the right truck would still tick all the boxes.

Off-road and towing capacity are probably the main feature you give up with that sort of design. Whether or not most people need that is a separate story.

oatscoop Jul 29, 2023

They make kei trucks in 4x4, but you do lose ground clearance.

Blamemeta Jul 29, 2023

Muddy fields when parking at church or boy scouts or whatever.

FireRetardant Jul 29, 2023

Whats best is the kei 4x4 is probably significantly better in most off road situations due to its lighter weight and shorter wheel base. You can drive/manuever around things easier and when you are on mud or sand, the lighter weight prevents sinking.

TitanLaGrange Jul 29, 2023

what kind of “off road” conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?

Probably all of them, but it would be fun to see an off-road shootout between the two.

Sounds like a job for Donut Media.

Shrimpbread Jul 29, 2023

There name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site

Shrimpbread Jul 29, 2023

The name crew can exist for reason, that how pack all your labourers in to job site, now 80% of tradesman don’t have a whole crew of labourers so your point is still there.

WetBeardHairs Jul 29, 2023

You’re mostly right. The main problem is that manufacturers chose to ignore the spirit of the US CAFE fuel economy regulations, and instead build everything bigger and bigger. That’s why quarter-ton trucks grew to the size of the F150 in the year 2000 when they were quite a bit smaller before.

It’s not the fault of the regulation. It is the fault of the manufacturers and to an equal extent, of consumers for preferring gigantic vehicles.

And let’s not let GM off the hook for the 1990s Suburban, which began to, quite literally, dominate the roads. Those fuckers were the original huge grocery getter, and they had truly awful turning radius and blind spots. You just couldn’t drive them safely or courteously if you tried. So of course everyone wanted more powerful and bigger vehicles to compete.

DaleGribble88 Jul 29, 2023

I’m actually going to fault regulations on this one. The EPA bases fuel economy requirements based on the wheel base. They used to publish a range of values based every other year or so, but then changed it to a formula. The formula is non-linear and makes it neigh impossible to build anything with a small wheel base any more. In theory, they could design a small hybrid truck, but would need an obnoxiously long bed to compensate.

I watched a YouTube video on it not terribly long ago, and circ, a 95 Ford ranger, if held to the current formula based regulations, would need 60+ mpg to be produced without major penalties to the company.

The EPA either needs to reevaluate the formula, or start manually publishing the numbers with values that are actually achievable by the industry at scale. Basically, by publishing the formula, manufacturers are able to min-max their designs in all the wrong ways.

Kool_Newt Jul 29, 2023

Yep, I think I saw that video, I was shocked how bad the regulations were. It really makes no financial sense for companies to make smaller trucks.

WetBeardHairs Aug 3, 2023

Really, the fault of the regulations is that the penalties for the number of vehicles in the heavy polluting category weren’t nearly stiff enough. That’s a big part of why the automakers went the opposite direction and just made bigger and heavier vehicles - they could.

YashaB Jul 29, 2023

You are right. Still the american truck is hugely oversized, even for 5 persons and cargo. But, for the sake of the argument, imagine standing on the highway. Have a gander at the cars around you. How many people per car do you see? Exactly, 90% of the time there is exactly one person in a car. What makes the american truck an extreme waste of space an ressources, beside being a health hazard to everyone outside of the car.

Cars should get smaller, not bigger.

FireRetardant Jul 29, 2023

I thought it was very disingenuous of OP to not mention crew capacity between the two trucks at all. I’d assume the bigger truck also has a better towing capacity which may be required. What isn’t required is buying one of these trucks to get groceries and replace your tv every 3 years while commuting to your desk job 1 hour away.

AA5B Jul 29, 2023

But what about cargo capacity? The beds look pretty much the same size, although I’m sure allowed weight is drastically different

FireRetardant Jul 29, 2023

The main post claims the beds are the same size. Technically speaking in terms of volume the kei truck wins due to lower bed height (if we are using max height to pass bridges as our standard). As for weight I’m pretty sure the left truck wins out on total capacity. That said the kei truck is still a remarkably useful minitruck and i wish they had a bigger market in the west.

🐱TheCat Jul 29, 2023

Thanks for pointing our the real incentives which are always some bullshit about more money and less regulations - basically the reason capitalism sucks at innovation - it doesn’t care about whats important and in some cases actively hates it

SCB Jul 29, 2023

What’s important for you specifically is not what is important to the customer base writ large.

You have problems with fellow consumers that you blame on manufacturers.

🐱TheCat Jul 29, 2023

Capitalism does not follow the desires of consumers, it follows the desire of shareholders.

SCB Jul 29, 2023

That doesn’t even make sense in the logic you’ve presented. Shareholders want to maximize value, which means selling more things to consumers, which means selling things consumers want.

If your entire worldview falls apart at the slightest scrutiny, it may be time to re-evaluate said worldview.

Kythtrid Jul 29, 2023

When you consider that marketing is intended to manipulate consumers into thinking they want your product, it’s more about convincing people that your product has value, and that they need it, rather than selling something that consumers actually need.

SCB Jul 29, 2023

You are not the arbiter on what people “need,” and people do not only purchase or consume things based on “need.”

Again, it’s time to re-evaluate the entire worldview

Kythtrid Jul 29, 2023

I never claimed to be the arbiter of what people need, but im just saying consumers dont have as much freewill as they claim when they’re actively being manipulated at every corner. Marketing is literally intended to make you feel like you need a product you didn’t previously want.

SCB Jul 29, 2023

Consumers absolutely have free will. Do you have free will? You’re not unique.

Kythtrid Jul 29, 2023

I didn’t say they had no freewill, i said.

Consumers do not have as much freewill as they claim

And no, that is exactly the purposes of marketing, as defined in my college marketing classes. Marketing is designed to “Create value” for a product to a consumer. That is to say, make them feel like they want to buy it. And as far as tactics, its all manipulation.

SCB Jul 29, 2023

There is a no percent chance you got a good grade in that class of you don’t understand the concept of creating value

🐱TheCat Jul 30, 2023

Look up manufactured scarcity. Great way to make money for shareholders without providing more to consumers. You charge them more for less. Notice any of that recently? Notice any record breaking profits in any industries? Notice any shortages of important things like IDK … housing!!!

I’ll also give you another example of capitalists not giving a fuck about what consumers want: electric cars back in the 1990s. The auto manufacturers realized they would lose their parts and repair businesses, as electric vehicles have fewer moving parts, the oil companies got pissed, so they put some power together and used the federal government to overturn californias electric car act that consumers voted for. The also forcefully recalled electric cars from consumers and crushed them. They did not care if there was demand if they could make more money in the short term by staying the same.

Hell, the very existence of exxon mobile disproves your ideas that companies will innovate in response to demand because they spent their money lying to the public about climate change so they could avoid any innovation at all for as long as possible. So WTF do you mean they care about demand?

Your logic that capitalists only do what consumers want is whats basic and flawed. If thats true, WTF is advertising? You think it’s just a fun hobby that doesn’t work? If advertising doesn’t create false demand, why do it? We have evidence advertising creates demand, therefore advertising works, therefore you need to adjust your worldview to allow for the fact that some amount of the shit that consumers buy is nothing more than light brainwashing. Including you dear.

SCB Jul 30, 2023

The difference is that efficient demand incentivizes h switchover. You’re blaming businesses for… Not leading with changes their customers don’t want

🐱TheCat Jul 30, 2023

I guess I shouldn’t have tried to talk about several concepts at once since your brain skipped past the manufactured scarcity concept, which is far more integral to capitalism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_scarcity

Note that capitalists have been practicing the art of ‘just burn the shit I can’t sell so no one can have it’ since the Dutch East India company burned islands full of spices to make them rarer. O such innovation

Artificial scarcity - Wikipedia

Falmarri Jul 30, 2023

This is the most braindead comment I’ve read in a long time.

spiphy Jul 29, 2023

Given the usage patterns, most people in the US do not need large trucks. They have been convinced that need them because the auto manufacturers make a lot of money selling trucks.

FlexibleToast Jul 29, 2023

That’s why the compact trucks are selling like hot cakes. People want trucks, but they don’t necessarily want these behemoths. I love my Santa Cruz.

snooggums Jul 29, 2023

Even compact trucks are not nearly as small as light trucks from a couple decades ago before regulations encouraged manufacturers to go bigger to avoid penalties.

Basically if you have two trucks with the same engine, but on a smaller wheelbase, the smaller one might be penalized for not being fuel efficient enough while the larger one isn't. Might as well go big to avoid the cost.

Cathisma Jul 29, 2023

Thats why we always had larger and smaller versions of trucks.

99% of trucks don’t NEED 3-4 passengers. Same with SUVs. Most are just used to commute back and forth to work.

Half ton trucks should have remained small, while the 1 ton ones should be closer to what the half-ton are sized today.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series#/media/File:1…

Look at the original F-100 for a good example. The old Rangers are also what most trucks should look like. Only the people that really use them should be driving these massive trucks around. I honestly hope gas prices spike massively because it’s going to hit idiots that drive this shit the worst.

Ford F-Series - Wikipedia

Deftdrummer Jul 29, 2023

Can’t tow a boat an RV or trailer with the Japanese vehicle. All things Americans do for fun. For work? The Japanese vehicle can’t haul 6,000 lbs of lumbar or steel, nor can it pull another vehicle out of a ditch.

BirdyBoogleBop Jul 29, 2023

The left one looks a little too expensive to actually haul with. If you needed to move that much wouldn’t something like an Isuzu Grafter make more sense?

If you tow things wouldn’t a van or any 4x4/high powered car be a better choice?

TraceLines Jul 29, 2023

How does each hold up in a collision tho? Crumple zones take up space, not something terribly present in the kei truck.

Krtek Jul 29, 2023

Oh definitely, helps if every third car or so is like the one on the right. Would be nice if the government subsidised the right ones and not the ones on the left

Blamemeta Jul 29, 2023

s a tin can basically. Theres a reason why you cant import new ones, you have to wait 25 years. Also terrible emissions for its size.

oatscoop Jul 29, 2023

The reason you can’t import new ones is because there’s a 25% protectionist tariff on foreign light trucks, combined with the fact there’s an extremely limited market for that kind of vehicle in the USA.

Chicken tax - Wikipedia

Blamemeta Jul 29, 2023

The smart fortwo had 340 more ccs, and .1 meters wider.

Kei trucks are basically road legal gators.