JessicaJul 29, 2023

TIL Kowloon Walled City existed and is the real world origin for many visual representations of oppressive urbanization in cyberpunk media

https://lemmy.world/post/2329560

TIL Kowloon Walled City existed and is the real world origin for many visual representations of oppressive urbanization in cyberpunk media - Lemmy.world

I came across a video on Youtube discussing it (there are several), and Kowloon Walled City is just endlessly fascinating. A few notable videos I found on the subject were: The Densest City on Earth [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YuNvIfM-YA] Kowloon Walled City: Hong Kong’s City of Darkness [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcSBOUpgngM] Inside Hong Kong’s Kowloon Walled City [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fd56CGnVRU] There is also a book on the city called City Of Darkness Life In Kowloon Walled City [https://archive.org/details/city-of-darkness-life-in-kowloon-walled-city-1993], which I found on archive.org [http://archive.org] in high resolution. It is full of photographs and detailed accounts of the comings and goings within the enclave.

Show threadfubo

Curiously, in cyberpunk media this sort of mega-slum is often portrayed as an excess of capitalist urbanization, whereas in historical reality it was an exclave of “communist” China inserted into “capitalist” British Hong Kong, wherein the “capitalist” authorities had no jurisdiction.

(Edited: Sounds more like the point was that it was effectively nobody’s jurisdiction.)

Jul 29, 2023 at 2:28amWeb
Show threadZephrCJul 29, 2023
The Chinese government never actually had any authority there. It was completely within Hong Kong, and the British didn’t let them go there.
Show threadTheBucklessProphetJul 29, 2023
What the fuck are you talking about? In actual reality it was a product of capitalism. Specifically British imperialist capitalism in China. It took until the mid 80’s (40 years after the Communists came to power) for the British to allow China to have control over the area and it was turned in to a park less than a decade later, clearly indicating that the Communists were in no way interested in continuing the existence of the dystopian walled city.
Show threadfuboJul 29, 2023
Sorry, are you saying the British Hong Kong authorities had any jurisdiction there?
Show threadAatubeJul 29, 2023

With no government enforcement from the Chinese or the British aside from a few raids by the Hong Kong Police, the walled city became a haven for crime and drugs. It was only during a 1959 trial for a murder that occurred within the walled city that the Hong Kong government was ruled to have jurisdiction there.

The CCP repeatedly sent requests to reclaim the entire region but Imperial Britain pretty much refused (they proposed a ton of alternative solutions) and didn't govern it either. So yes, it's Imperial Britain's fault. Since the day Britain agreed to transfer the territory there was a declared intent to demolish the place.

Show threadTheBucklessProphetJul 29, 2023
It’s more accurate to say that the British prevented either themselves (through inaction) or China (by treaty/law) from having any practical control. If you’d bother to read the wiki article OP linked you’d know. China should have had jurisdication, but Britain techincally had (imperialist) jurisdication. The result was a no-man’s until Britain finally gave up.
Show threadremoteloveJul 29, 2023
Show threadEhListJul 29, 2023

Just a note here the UK leased HK from China. As the PRC took over the legitimacy of the previous government it also acquiesced to their previous agreements so it did not take until the mid80s for the UK to allow anything. Their lease was running out and the PRC had absolutely no reason to continue it.

The PRC knocked it down because they had the legal right to and Im not sure the UK treaty would have permitted that.

Show threadsoren446Jul 29, 2023
Wow. Kowloon might have been the most ancap place ever and you called it “communist”.
Show threadRubiksIsocahedronJul 29, 2023
What do you expect from AnCaps? Honest, good faith?
Show threadRoundcatJul 29, 2023
Wouldn't this be more of an example of anarchism, since the city functioned without any planning or input from a centralized authority?
Show threadwarJul 29, 2023
Can you walk me through how you arrived at the idea that Kowloon was a product of communism, and explain when and why the Chinese decided to insert it into Hong Kong? Sorry if I'm a bit slow, but what you wrote runs counter to everything I thought I knew about the topic.