hairinmybellybuttquick reminder
ciko22i3What if I want to make my own farm?
queermunist she/herYou could have a personal garden, but to have a farm you’d have to obtain a lot of land. Then you’d have to make the land productive with either large and resource hungry machinery i.e. capital or you’d have to obtain and exploit the labor of farm workers to work by hand.
What if i agree with some of my friends that we will join our yards to make one big field and work it together? We could also ask others for help and pay them for their work, the amount of money we both agree with.
You and your community collectively owning and operating a farm is literally a communal farm.
but if some of my friends dont want to work it they can just sell me the land. And if we produce more food than we need we can sell it so we can buy other things we don’t produce. I dont understand why its wrong to own a farm.
Personal property is for personal use. That’s it.
Once you start to accumulate surplus property then its very obviously not personal anymore.
Don’t think in terms of “right” and “wrong”. Think materially.
what if their father left them the garden and they want to sell it to me? what if they want to move somewhere else and they decide to sell me their property?
Inheritance is antithetical to meritocracy is the basis for generational wealth and capitalist dynasties.
Everything must go, use it lose it.
What even is your motivation to do more than the bare minimum to survive if not to leave it to your children? I would rather take care of my kids future than let some corrupt government do it who will prioritize their children over mine
You can’t even imagine helping your neighbors, huh?
In the entirety of human history communism has never worked. Not once has any society been able to work on the ideals of it.
Yeah, because the US bombs them or funds rebel groups or cuts them off from access to vital goods.
If communism was so strong it wouldn’t have to worry about capitalist intervention. You just proved my point of communism / socialism being weak if the apparent enemy is easily able to wreck you economy and implode your country it is not a strong system.
Might makes right, then?
In terms of global politics, yes. Every country has fallen back into capitalism in some form, the closest I can think of being truly, actually communist were the Spanish Anarchists based out of Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War. If you would like to read about them I recommend George Orwell’s “Homage to Catalonia.” Everyone made the same amount, they called each other comrade regardless of rank, etc. They did not last long though, taken out by their own democratic allies during the Civil War.
I disagree. Countries controlled by communist parties today have retreated from socialism by enacting market reforms, but they haven’t fallen. A fallen revolution wouldn’t bother to call itself communist anymore.
China, in particular, seems to be on a good trajectory and has made a lot of progress towards socialism. There’s a reason they tried harder than pretty much every other country on Earth to save their people during the pandemic, despite how much that might have hurt their economy.
China is in no way shape or form socialist lmao. They’re just another flavor of authoritarian capitalist. If you really think the PRC will every make any meaningful attempts to improve or become more progressive then you are very delusional. The PRC is probably the farthest from progressive you can get. It’s a brutal and unforgiving regime.
Zero COVID proves China is literally different than every other capitalist nation on Earth. Even if you don’t believe the official data, the excess death rate shows they beat pretty much everyone other than extreme outliers like New Zealand.
I just googled China COVID Death rate and every story is about China underreporting at every step of the process. The fact you believe anything coming from that government is sad and stupid. China trying to pass off zero COVID deaths is just another indicator at a failing state under an oppressive and deadly regime.
The excess death rate, again something that can’t be faked, proves China outperformed everyone else.
They can lie an say a death from COVID was actually a heart attack or a stroke or the flu, but they can’t just disappear bodies and pretend they’re still alive.
www.nytimes.com/…/china-covid-data-toll.html
time.com/…/china-covid-death-toll-underreporting/
irishtimes.com/…/china-deletes-data-on-covid-19-d…
Here’s three articles on the messing with COVID numbers and hiding true death counts. It’s incredibly easy to hide true death tolls in such a large country that’s effectively cut off from the rest of the world’s news. If you control the data being pushed out and there’s a severe lack of checking if they’re true or not, it’s incredibly easy to hide deaths, either misreporting them like you mentioned or just not reporting them at all. Current US death rates from COVID are 1 million, while investigations form the NYT reports at least triple that in China, if not more. Again, failed state under an oppressive and deadly regime.
That’s just manipulating COVID death counts, they aren’t disappearing the actual deaths themselves. We know deaths still happened, like the Time article said “China’s True COVID Death Toll Estimated To Be in Hundreds of Thousands”
**1.4 billion people live in China. ** The fact that *only *a few hundred thousand died is a miracle that almost no other country can match when you actually start comparing numbers directly. China outperformed everyone else when you measure how many people died against how many people didn’t die.
You misread the article, that hundreds of thousands statistic is only for the most recent batch of COVID. Also, if China and the US are comparable, it would be about 4 million. If China was comparable to another country, like say Ireland, it would be around 2.5 million. My figure of about 3 million seems accurate enough for this argument. Your devotion to this regime is unfortunate, you should consider reevaluating your decisions and take a fresh look at the awfulness that happens to the people of China everyday.
I can’t read the NYT article because it’s behind a paywall lol
Gotta love western “freedom of press”
It’s impossible to uncouple society from capitalism. It’s not a possibility, but it definitely could work. Maybe capitalism just needs longer than communism to fail?
The wealthiest country in the world has unaffordable healthcare and homelessness, how is that capitalism working?
You overestimate how much the average person cares for people they don’t know.
Keep telling on yourself.
I wish the truth was different…
It is! Humans are naturally cooperative and empathetic, we aren’t selfish assholes that only care about our immediate families.
Empathy is a skill. It atrophies under capitalism, but it could be trained and flourish under different conditions.
From wikipedia:
Ancient views of greed abound in nearly every culture. In Classical Greek thought; pleonexy (an unjust desire for tangible/intangible worth attaining to others) is discussed in the works of Plato and Aristotle.[9] Pan-Hellenic disapprobation of greed is seen by the mythic punishment meted to Tantalus, from whom ever-present food and water is eternally withheld. Late-Republican and Imperial politicians and historical writers fixed blame for the demise of the Roman Republic on greed for wealth and power, from Sallust and Plutarch[10] to the Gracchi and Cicero. The Persian Empires had the three-headed Zoroastrian demon Aži Dahāka (representing unslaked desire) as a fixed part of their folklore. In the Sanskrit Dharmashastras the “root of all immorality is lobha (greed).”,[11] as stated in the Laws of Manu (7:49).[12] In early China, both the Shai jan jing and the Zuo zhuan texts count the greedy Taotie among the malevolent Four Perils besetting gods and men. North American Indian tales often cast bears as proponents of greed (considered a major threat in a communal society).[13] Greed is also personified by the fox in early allegoric literature of many lands.[14][15]
Greed (as a cultural quality) was often imputed as a racial pejorative by the ancient Greeks and Romans; as such it was used against Egyptians, Punics, or other Oriental peoples;[16] and generally to any enemies or people whose customs were considered strange. By the late Middle Ages the insult was widely directed towards Jews.[17]
In the Books of Moses, the commandments of the sole deity are written in the book of Exodus (20:2-17), and again in Deuteronomy (5:6-21); two of these particularly deal directly with greed, prohibiting theft and covetousness. These commandments are moral foundations of not only Judaism, but also of Christianity, Islam, Unitarian Universalism, and the Baháʼí Faith among others. The Quran advises do not spend wastefully, indeed, the wasteful are brothers of the devils…, but it also says do not make your hand [as though] chained to your neck…"[18] The Christian Gospels quote Jesus as saying, "“Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions”,[19] and “For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.”.[20]
That’s not “human nature”, that’s an evolutionary eye blink! Do you think people 50,000 years ago had concepts like that? Absolutely not!
Yes they did. Dogs are greedy. Monkeys are greedy. You dont get far in this world if you dont have some sort of greed baked into your genes.
You aren’t a dog and you aren’t a monkey.
Human nature is to cooperate and share among the tribe, and the tribe is basically just “anyone who lives in the same place.” Yes, maybe expanding the tribe to include “everyone everywhere” is beyond human nature, but we’re extremely good at welcoming new people into the tribe. There are countless examples throughout all of human history of new people being welcomed in despite being different, and that’s so very different from basically the rest of the animal kingdom. Humans are amazing, stop being a misanthrope.
MFW we’re trying to compare a small tribe to a countries spanning landmasses…
Now you’re just highlighting how unnatural human lives are, which makes the entire “human nature” talking point irrelevant anyway!
Every civilization in history has thought of itself and everything it does as natural or ordained by god or somehow fated. It’s all bullshit.
So what are all those people without kids doing?
Make a better world, build a stronger economy for them excel in and make their own way. I plan on providing the very best for my children to let them go about their life as they see fit and not have to rely on something I might pass down.
Corrupt governments is a cop out statement too, ideally you wouldn’t stand for government corruption.