psskIs it the end for linux distros without systemd? Is doomsday near?
AboyBboyJesus Christ that author is insufferable.
fx_He sounds like a bitter, stagnant, arrogant old man.
I’m a bitter, stagnant, arrogant old man. That this guy also can’t write for shit is coincidental.
Netto HikariWow, whoever wrote this doesn’t have a clue about systemd, Firefox, Librewolf or whatever. I stopped reading after a while. Couldn’t stand it.
But the end is the “best” part, the one where using systemd causes the literal(!) apocalypse.
calm.like.a.bombI couldn’t understand exactly what the problem is… and the writing style is infuriating. State your problem, then explain what you want!
owatnextNot going to lie, I could not finish that article.
V This article reads like the writer has untreated mental health issues. Like actually unhinged.
The writer reminds me of Terry Davis, except not as bright.
Until someone can provide actual, techological disadvantages of systemd over currently available, viable alternatives, this is an irrelevant culture war for me. I feel like some people made hating system-d a core element of their identity and personality.
I feel like some people made hating system-d a core element of their identity and personality.
Basically this these days. It started out with people not liking change, not liking the author and miss-understanding what systemd is trying to do. Then latching onto some aspects of it and refusing to let go or change their minds at all.
The tragedy of systemd talk goes over a bunch of the common reasons (and counter points) about why people don’t like systemd as well as the history of init systems.
InternetCitizen2Even 4chan meme Luke Smith has said he is not sure what is so wrong with system-d to go out of his way to avoid it. Some people across other threads have made some vague comment about vendor lock, but I think people choose it because it solves a problem. Not sure what contract keeps people tied to system-d.
One thing i can think of is that systemd won’t work in chroots(tell me if i’m wrong, help!). That is, apps requiring systemd cannot be run in chroot environment as it does not “boot up” at all. Systemd, due to it being an init system used to boot up, and being a daemon for other apps, makes it that you can’t run such apps in a non-booted environment.
I would like it so much if it was splitted into two something like “initd+systemd” or “systemd+servicesd” for boot up and running services seperately
𝓢𝓮𝓮𝓙𝓪𝔂𝓔𝓶𝓶I don’t like <thing> so no one else is allowed to like <thing> seems to be rampant.
I may agree with him/her, I may not. But that’s unreadable.
The author of this article:
Hard to read. At first I thought it was satire.
Well…
I just installed Pop_OS which uses systemd-boot to boot instead of grub. I gotta say…its one of the areas I really like systemd over the legacy grub bootloader.
systemd-boot is so much easier to work with than grub.
Definately agree. For a very long time I have been one of those “what problems is systemd solving over init/upstart”
This is 1000% one of them. In my setup my EFI paritions are totally separate. So theres no risk as well as Pop_OS bungling my windows boot loader and vice versa. I was very happy with this change.
𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬This whole anti-systemd thing is so pathetic.
roadkillRight. What's stopping anyone from maintaining the ONE PURE SYSTEM-FREE DISTRO (tm)? If it's -that- much of an issue, surely there's enough of a userbase to justify maintaining such a distro and suite of apps? We're running an operating system whose very foundation exists due to forks and splits... some of which went on to be extremely popular defaults. Instead we get an insufferable rant blaming millennials for everything. Literally. Author blames millennials for Firefox, Librewolf and Thunderbird apparently expediting the death of non-systemd setups.
And then we have a spiel about Chrome... "which is a violent security violator bootstrapping itself deep into the base system"... oh lord. Yeah. Someone forgot to take his meds. We're about one step away from someone asking him where on the Android plush doll the author touched by the Big Bad Google Man in a Trenchcoat.
Angry old man angry that the world hasn't remained exactly the same for his benefit alone.
There are plenty of Systemdless forks of distros. People do maintain and it works well. However, the issue is to make the forks its incredibly labor intensive for coders and while not impossible to remove systemd, it's extremely hard. When base apps require systemd, it locks you down to that one system which is why people hate it so much. It centralizes code and the systems and prevents ease of choice. Does it work? Yes. Though even if it doesn't affect you or your thoughts, its good to understand why there is a divide. I personally use Artix Linux at the moment with S6 as my init system and it works great. I get why people like Systemd, but I feel it sterilizes our freedom of choice like a frog in a pot of water.
What's stopping anyone from maintaining the ONE PURE SYSTEM-FREE DISTRO (tm)?
Nothing. Actions have shown that distro maintainers overwhelmingly prefer systemd because it's way easier to maintain than sysv init (from what I hear anyways). I'd put money on the author of the blog not being a distro maintainer - just some guy that complains on the internet.
Angry old man angry
Damn, You weren’t kidding. the article would be comical if it weren’t so worrying for his mental state.
demonswordAngry old man angry that the world hasn’t remained exactly the same for his benefit alone.
you’re right, the article reads like a gigantic “GET OF MY LAWN!!”, I found it hilarious!!
HubertManneI understand it. I never liked windows moving to the database like registry for configs. But it is what it is type of thing. I might choose a distro because it still uses sysv and I already like freebsd so its a possibility for me to but I also like really easy and convenient distros I can install and go with. Generally im not really mucking about in those systems anyway except at a very high user level.
The thing coming closest to the Windows registry is Gnome’s GConf.
systemd also isn’t a monolithic blob. It would cause some work but you can individually replace the various systemd-related programs with own implementations. They all just communicate with each other, they’re not chained together.
Sorry I did not mean to say it was like the move to registry. More like I did not personally like and similarly am not wild about systemd myself. But ultimately it is with the flavors to decide what they are going to do and folks to use what they are gonna use. Again myself when it comes to install and go, im gonna use whatever works best for me and if thats distro with systemd then it is what it is.
We should think about starting a GoFundMe to get the author the mental health support they so clearly need
The DoctorThis post reads like a sysadmin tried to update to the latest Ubuntu LTS at work and systemd caused a C&A team to go aggro because they’ve never heard of it, and now said sysadmin has to maintain a couple of hundred 12.04 LTS installs by hand, backporting packages from 22.04.2 LTS just so the cutting edge software the userbase requires to do their jobs will run.
borlaxPeople like that make me like systemd. Honestly, I see no issues and rarely have a problem with systemd. Shitposting about it is all well and good, but being an anti-systemd evangelist is tiring and weird. All these old heads can still just grab the kernel and build their own OS around it with whatever init they want.
They also seem to congregate on FreeBSD… it’s my preferred os but eventually it’s going to bite them seeing how most new server apps (including lemmy) seem to rely on it!
Having said that they have Firefox 115 running fine without any system level wrappers so not sure why he’d be having issues on a non-systemd os if the FreeBSD Firefox maintainer can figure it out.
RoboRaySomebody should just switch to BSD. Or at least decaf.
Im fairly confident that most Linux installs don’t have a Firefox install.
GizmoLionThe last several lines are so insanely unhinged, completely untethered from reality lol.
Also, when this guy learns about X11 vs Wayland he's doing to die of an aneurysm.
Betteridge’s Law of Headlines: “Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word ‘no’.” A check of the ebuild indicates that Firefox on Gentoo doesn’t depend on systemd, elogind, udev, or even dbus. It isn’t Firefox’s fault if a given distro can’t configure it and its dependencies properly (well, okay, it sorta is, because its configuration setup is complex and ugly, but . . .)
For $DEITY’s sake, if you’re going to be anti-systemd, do it for real reasons.
nik282000millennials
Do I really have to read past this word?
No. I tried. It’s barely coherent.
Yeesh, a bit alarmist. For a while you couldn’t build GNOME 3.30+ on Gentoo without systemd but they figured it out by splitting out the necessary component into its own package (elogind). The list of hard depencies on systemd isn’t very long.