Mastodawn

Bearded Pip Jul 13, 2023

I have to vent about Pandemic Legacy. We have Season1 and I HATE it. HATE. #pandemiclegacy #PandemicLegacySeason1

Bearded Pip Jul 13, 2023

Above and beyond being an unplayable, unbalanced, overly complex version of the original, it has zero replay/resale/donation value.

It is a one and done product and that offends me to the core. Any other boards game I hate can sent off to a new home where someone might enjoy it. Yes, even #FormulaD.

Imagine a video game where death means not going back to the start of the game or level? Worse, imagine that if you run out of lives you never play the game again without buying a new copy of it.

It is the absolute worst cross between a Boardgame and a Tabletop RPG I have ever seen. If this was and RPG, I would actually like it. I could see my friends having a lot of replay value in it.

And all the stupid sticker shit and mystery boxes could have been executed any number of other ways that would have allowed you to replay the game. A second, smaller board, with a list of the cities on it, with the ability to place tokens on the city indicating what's going on. A rioting token, a fallen token, etc. Card for character abilities and injuries! All of the stickers could be replaced in ways that would allow you to replay the game or give to someone that might enjoy it after you tried it out.

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Bearded Pip

My wife's argument is that you get at least 12 plays out of it, and maybe even 24. And how many games have we bought that we never played that much.

This is true, but any game we haven't played that much is not instantly ruined after one play through. Our Library has a boardgame program and games we've hated have been donated there. I cannot donate this game. I am forced to try and "beat it" and then I get to throw it out.

It is bad for the entire hobby that this model has spread beyond Pandemic. The world can handle other RPG's besides DnD, I promise you. It can handle GM-less RPG's as well. The world can handle a gmae being more complex and needing more tokens or a second board. Terraforming Mars is still popular and that is complex with multiple boards (with the expansions).

#pandemicLegacy #PandemicLegacySeason1

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Grayson Page Jul 13, 2023

@BeardedPip a fair critique.

My only question (and it's not a defense) is "without causing permanent change and that level of gravitas, how do you induce that comparable level of thoughtfulness, weight, and tension?"

I've sat and thought about it, and while you can make games stressful and tense and make decisions "matter," that's all still in the realm of "oh, we can just roll that back and pick something else" or "woops, didn't win this one. Better luck next time." Legacy games add the level of "well, you don't actually get to turn back, your decisions are set, plan carefully."

The closest I've seen is games run at a convention; you don't have a copy and this is your chance to play it but the person running the game says you don't get to try a second time and reset so be careful. That's not a model that publishers want to adopt though, so you're left with this (as best I can tell).

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Bearded Pip Jul 13, 2023

@gpage "without causing permanent change and that level of gravitas, how do you induce that comparable level of thoughtfulness, weight, and tension?"

Have you ever played BSG? Because that game is replay-able and is PACKED with all of those features. The OG Pandemic is stressful and full of weight and thoughtfulness.

Also have not heard of RPG? Where every campaign in different, but you don't spend a ton of money on one and done materials?

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Grayson Page Jul 13, 2023

@BeardedPip I think we will agree to disagree that those examples meet the level that I'm referring to. To me, this is like the difference between taking a permanent marker to your forearm and getting a tattoo there. Yes, you can get the tattoo removed, but it takes *real* effort and an expense.

Imagine playing BSG but if you were wrong and lost at the end, the victor got to sign you up to get a tattoo of their choosing; you would certainly sweat the gravity of the situation and what you did a little more. That's my point; how do you make this "real" for those who are interested?

Legacy games ultimately try and recreate that sort of gravity in your decision making process during the game. Now, I completely understand not wanting that sort of pressure in your hobby time for a plethora of reasons. As someone who generally plays games as a form of escape from the daily driver of reality, I get it. Conversely, some folks do enjoy that, so I ask again, if doing permanent modification of components is off the table due to any particular reason (e.g. sustainable production, retention of resale options, etc), then how does one ramp up that sort of pressure?