astral_avocadoJul 10, 2023

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance

https://lemmynsfw.com/post/262488

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance - Lemmy NSFW

For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff! The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism.

Show threadpreasketJul 10, 2023

Good thing that what they are building is super transparent, open source and distributed. That critical post wasn’t even deleted.

As long as that remains the case, I’m happy that Lemmy is a place where you can find all kinds of views represented.

Show threadQuokkaJul 11, 2023

Oh yeah, I’m really happy that alt-right/ *ist/neonazi/etc views are represented.

So glad for diversity of bigotry!

Show threadpreasketJul 11, 2023
Suppressing different views on a platform doesn’t make them go away, it only radicalises them. The only real, long term solution is debate and persuasion.
Show threadTSG_Asmodeus (he, him)Jul 11, 2023

Suppressing different views on a platform doesn’t make them go away

We’re not talking about ‘different views’, we’re talking about violent, bigoted, misogynistic, racist views that advocate for the removal/killing of people based on what they were born as. There’s no ‘middle ground’ or ‘debate’ to be had with someone who holds those views.

They can be de-radicalised sure, but not by a bunch of strangers on the internet.

Show threadCethin

You’ve got a lot of replies, so this probably isn’t needed, but debate and persuasion only works if the views they hold are reasonable and if they came to those views through reason. It also legitimizes their views. Often “debate” is used as a tool to appear like they’re the more reasonable person by being the one who always asks questions, but they never answer anything. They always attack and they don’t defend any view (because they are not reasonably held, just useful), so they look like the more powerful persuasive point of view.

Basically, argument only works with reasonable people. The alt-right generally are not reasonable people and will use your arguing to make you appear stupid and them appear powerful to recruit more people. Don’t argue with the alt-right. Only humiliate them in the hopes others see how bad they are.

Jul 11, 2023 at 4:45pmWeb
Show threadastral_avocadoJul 11, 2023

It doesn’t even need to be an active effort of persuasion, just having them exist closely (in a somewhat censored way if everyone has them muted/defederated) is also good.

There was a recent study that paid trump supporters to simply watch CNN instead of Fox and they got pretty good results on moderating them down. You can’t discount how people, to some degree, absorb the views of those around them. Even just seeing reasonable takes can sometimes get the gears turning in someone’s head that could result in them thinking differently days or months down the line. I can say I’ve had my mind changed in similar ways, although I’ve never been a radical bigot.