astral_avocadoJul 10, 2023

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance

https://lemmynsfw.com/post/262488

TIL lemmy.ml is a pro-authoritarian CCP shill instance - Lemmy NSFW

For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff! The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism.

Show threadpreasketJul 10, 2023

Good thing that what they are building is super transparent, open source and distributed. That critical post wasn’t even deleted.

As long as that remains the case, I’m happy that Lemmy is a place where you can find all kinds of views represented.

Show threadQuokkaJul 11, 2023

Oh yeah, I’m really happy that alt-right/ *ist/neonazi/etc views are represented.

So glad for diversity of bigotry!

Show threadpreasketJul 11, 2023
Suppressing different views on a platform doesn’t make them go away, it only radicalises them. The only real, long term solution is debate and persuasion.
Show threadJackolanternJul 11, 2023

I’m sorry but I beg to disagree,

First, it assumes that all views are equally valid and worthy of debate, which is not the case. Some views, such as fascism, are inherently antidemocratic, violent, and oppressive, and do not deserve a platform in a free society. Fascism is not just a different opinion, but a political ideology and mass movement that seeks to exalt nation and often race above the individual and to forcibly suppress any opposition. Giving fascists a platform to spread their propaganda and recruit followers is not only irresponsible, but also dangerous, as history has shown.

Show threadpreasket
So, what do you propose to do with fascists, racists, etc? Kill them? Debate is an opportunity to get those people, who are probably very dissatisfied with life, on the right path. Removal from platforms leads to them creating their own, isolated groups that get ever more radicalised. Every view, however dumb it may be, is worthy of debate or of at least being seen (people are free to ignore it). Not all views are equally valid, of course, but the validity of views is determined precisely during debate and argumentation. I don’t support fascism, racism, etc but if there’s a shortcut to remove those views from the public, the same shortcut can be used to remove anything! That’s a clear route to authoritarianism.
Jul 11, 2023 at 4:18pmWeb
Show threadFxtrtTngoWhiskyJul 11, 2023
It’s so funny how some people don’t get this.
Show threadTSG_Asmodeus (he, him)Jul 11, 2023

Removal from platforms leads to them creating their own, isolated groups that get ever more radicalised.

Yeah, but stormfront hasn’t had nearly the effect that allowing Nazi’s to post on reddit/twitter/etc has. You have to understand you can’t unpack on ‘humiliate’ these people. Look at Steven Crowder, absolutely humiliated and shamed as he ran away from any debate with Sam Seder. And what happened to his views? Just as high as they were before. The only thing that hits these people is getting them off large platforms.

As soon as they have a voice, it looks like an equal voice. Look at the absolute travesty that was the climate change ‘debate’. Giving climate change deniers a seat didn’t persuade everyone against it, it delayed the acceptance of fact be years.

Show threadFabioTheNewOrderJul 11, 2023

I propose to kill them socially. Shun them from any collective gathering and let them live at the edge of society as they wish. Are you antivax? Very good, no medical treatments for you. If you don’t believe in vaccines I don’t see why you should be using antibacterials or chemo treatments.

You don’t like the laws protecting the right of minorities? Don’t ask for law enforcement to show up at your house should you ever be robbed or attacked. Either you respect the law or you don’t ask for its support when it’s convenient to you.

Are you a dickhead to others and cannot live normally around people different from you? Go live in the woods with someone akin to you and you alone.

We would very quickly loose all the deadbeats who are a menace to a civilised society and we wouldn’t even have to get physical with them.

How does this feel as a proposal?

Show threadShardikprimeJul 11, 2023
Yeah let’s forget about the laws and the equality of people in front of the constitution
Show threadFabioTheNewOrderJul 12, 2023

But it is you, with your authoritarian way, which would force them to follow medical advices and practices these people do not want to follow. I personally am only giving in in their worldview and I am allowing them to live with the consequences of their actions.

Besides, I see that you are completely ignoring all my questions and point against your reasoning so I’m left to wonder what is this conversation bringing to the table. As far as I can see little to nothing, we do have a problem but you are just arguing to keep the status quo as it is. Let me remind you that this status quo has brought us to the situation we are in now and that, to avoid worse outcomes, we do need to change something in our society. Leaving everything as it is wouldn’t help in solving any issue as we are bring shown by the situations developing in red states and in countries around the world, so what would you want to do to improve the situation?

As a practical example, how would you have handled the COVID crisis and the anti-vax population? Give me a straight answer and no word salads please