L4sBotDeep space experts prove Elon Musk's Starlink is interfering in scientific work
M0oP0oYeah, and if we did not abandon our traditional networks then there would not be such a strong market for STARMLINK.
mobA couple weeks ago I was way away from civilization deep in the mountains, and my buddy set up his Starlink for a project. I have a hard time believing traditional networks would have made that possible? We are about to use it for the ocean in a few weeks as well…
But I also would take deep space study over the convenience of internet anywhere. I’m just not sure traditional networks would have covered those areas?
You could receive normal satellite internet the same way, the advantage starlink brings is that it’s much lower latency than geosynchronous satellites and they’re selling it for much less and more bandwith.
kroldenNormal sattelite internet is terrible
On Reddit I remember getting called a “space Karen” for pointing this out in a discussion about Starlink. Elon Musk fanboys are some of the worst. Second only to Q fanboys.
Well the issue is that not everything is black and white.
On one hand, these satellites can potentially absolutely wreak havok on astronomy, and our own view of the night sky. Nobody wants that.
On the other hand, in a few years, these satellites are able to provide cheap internet all over the planet, which would allow poor remote communities in South America, Africa, and Asia access to the internet, which is practically impossible through any other means. IMO, its worth the tradeoff. I think helping people is more important than astronomy, but I recognize that that’s just my opinion
Okay but you’re falling into Elon’s trap. You can’t weigh future potential against current harm naively. Particularly when it comes from somebody with a long history of over promising and under delivering. Since we pay the full price up front (loss of science, etc) but will never reap the full benefits promised.
I agree that we can’t trust Elon… but hasn’t Starlink already helped Ukrainians? I remember he messed it up for a bit, but if we took Elon out of the picture but kept Starlink, the debate gets more interesting.
If you are like the guy you are responding to and prioritize people over astrology(which I’m not sure I do tbh), I don’t think they are being naive weighing future potential vs current harm. Easy internet access anywhere in the world vs deep space study from Earth isn’t black and white.
Personally, I’d choose space, but I can imagine a lot of people would choose the more humanitarian approach.
To my knowledge absolutely nothing critical to Ukranian defense uses Starlink.
And again, what is niave is to not heavily discount any claims Elon makes. Starlink provides neglible value currently, what potential might exist is imaginary.
The best thing for the world is to realize Elon was a sunk cost and move on
I tried to separate the conversation from Elon to keep it more honest about the benefits of accessible internet for everyone anywhere on Earth. If we just want to do a “Fuck Elon” conversation, I’m on your side and that conversations done.
but why would the potential benefits of satellite internet be imaginary, but the potential benefits of deep space study not be?
and again, I’d way rather progress on the space front than help humanity, but thankfully those aren’t my decisions to make.
For the third time, you cannot separate the grifter from the grift. That’s not “Fuck Elon”, that’s “starlink is not, and never will be, what was promised”
Similarly, you can’t weigh an abstract possibility versus a real cost. You want the conversation to be some philosophical discourse about social vs societal value. But it’s not that, it’s a real situation right now.
And in this real life situation, we have to evaluate what starlink actually is - - a failed toy for wealthy early adopters - - and not what some abstract “could be”.
Especially when we know for a fact that any public promises of that potential are certainly intended to mislead and not inform.
so this is just an anti-Elon conversation right? It doesn’t feel like an honest conversation about the actual topic.
We agree, Fuck Elon, been great talking. Cheers
It’s definitely not an honest conversation when you’ve deliberately and repeatedly chosen to misunderstand what’s being said.
It’s time to grow up and stop believing hucksters and grifters.
SoPunnyElon already fucked with their starlink I believe, but I didn’t recheck to be fair. Also seriously, don’t trust that man with shit.
Most people value everything over astrology…
It’s not a distant future, the benefits are already here and increasing with each launch.
I’ve been tracking a sailboat crossing the Atlantic Ocean the past weeks which have been able to upload videos to YouTube everyday, something that would be impossible without Starlink.
Of course, this specific use case isn’t important, just used it to point out that Starlink is already working well.
driving_croonerpoor remote communities in South America
Ironically, starlink was used by illegal miners on the Amazon to coordinate operations and avoid policing.
Yes the internet is indeed useful to have
Isn’t Starlink still heavily limited by the geography you are in. As in there cannot be too many subscribers in any one place because it will use all the capacity? If that’s still the case seems doubtful it will ever bring anything cheap to the masses.
which would allow poor remote communities in South America, Africa, and Asia access to the internet, which is practically impossible through any other means.
“Practically impossible” is a horrible way to describe it. It’s not practically impossible; the solution and methods are eminently doable, they just aren’t done (yet) because of cost in poor areas with relatively weak governments. Most of those areas will get reliable non-satellite internet in the years to come.
We can talk up the good of systems like Starlink without hyping it up as delivering something that is otherwise impossible.
At least SpaceX restarted the cheap launch race and is giving us the option of heavy but affordable payloads for scientific instruments.
LEO junk will only get worse with time, so let’s start planning for it.
Sure, but you’re creating a false dichotomy to get to your conclusion. The way Starlink is creating its satellite network is not the only way to create one. Viasat doesn’t blanket the globe in satellites.
Funny, “Space Karen” Is a really common name for Elon.
qisopeall these comments discussing ukraine wartime internet, or poorer communities in south america. meanwhile, i have zero interest in musk, but starlink has been a fantastic Internet option for me in rural US.
my other options are borderline unusable DSL, or a couple of line-of-sight wireless providers which would require cutting down who knows how many trees to even have a hope of connectivity.
there are a significant number of people living in this area, but no decent wired or cellular internet options and despite my state getting a large federal grant to improve internet speeds, I have zero expectation it will be improved for me.
Same here, we’re not rural enough to get grant money but not suburban enough to get cable. And everybody who says Hughesnet is fine has definitely never used it. I could never have worked from home through the pandemic if we hadn’t gotten starlink.
Bucket_of_TruthIt sounds insane but you should look into building a rural ISP. This guy in Michigan did it and he can barely keep up with demand in his rural community.
I strongly dislike Elon Musk but Starlink is a net win, and science can and must evolve to overcome these sorts of challenges. Nearby space is only going to get more crowded
ilickfrogsI have to agree here. I think a temporary compromise could be reducing the constellation size, spread out the dishes and reduce throughput. The accessibility Starlink offers is a 11/10 win for the world. But the bandwidth and size should come after we have better mitigation for Kessler Syndrome and inference with observing the universes. Alternatively, lets slap some big fuckin’ telescopes on the moon and call it a day!
Look, anyone who can fit a laser beam and a grappling hook inside a wrist-watch deserves your respect.
That is a Q worthy of a fandom.
stevedidWHATFanboys for anyone are the worst.
We as fucking adults should be able to criticize anything and anyone we believe in. Especially if you believe in them.
That’s called security in your beliefs, go figure that our chronically insecure populace would refuse to question their beliefs
A_Random_Idiotso many people tie their self worth to something ridiculous, like a personality, or a sports team, or politician, and absolutely lose their mind over any criticism or wrong doing, because they take it as a personal assault on them.
I think it’s understandable to want to be a part of something bigger, and we want to defend our comfort zones so people get carried away.
To me, it’s just immature
Theres a difference between being part of something bigger, and tying your identity and self worth to a person or thing.
It’ll be interesting when some untouchable actor decides enough is enough and starts deorbiting them.
Interesting. I remember there was a brightness concern, with the Starlink reflecting too much light, but assumed it was all ok because IIRC they hit their reflectivity reduction targets.
However, this seems to be about transmissions from the satellites interfering with non-visible observations.
In a study, published in the Astronomy & Astrophysics journal, scientists used a powerful telescope in the Netherlands to observe 68 of SpaceX’s satellites and detected emissions from satellites are drifting out of their allocated band, up in space.
… “Why this matters is because of the number,” Dr Di Vruno said. “Suppose that there is a satellite in space that radiates this kind of signal, there is a very, very small chance that this satellite will be in the beam, in the main site, of your telescope.”
Overzeetopdrifting out of their allocated band
That sounds like a violation of regulatory authorization. Tell his ass to fix it or shut it down. If he can’t, revoke StarLink’s status as a US corporation.
Randy_BobandySounds to me like it’s about time we build an observatory on the moon.
I hear you, but let me propose: prison on the moon, and we send Elon there.
I hear you, but let me propose: prison on the moon, and we send Elon there.
And then we have an Australia situation
I’m okay with the Moon eventually becoming a good place to visit maybe after several several generations – hopefully this time with less of a chance to displace native populations. It’s only slightly more hostile to human life than Australia after all.
That raises an interesting question. What would we do if the moon declared independence and was self sustaining?
MinnesotaGoddamI think this was on my bingo card
Yeah and a Dyson sphere would interfere with terrestrial observation of the sun.
Even if it’s Elon, getting people internet is a higher priority than scientific work. Sorry scientists but that takes priority
Dogshit take.
rmukBloody scientists! What have they ever done for us?
Based on the article the satellites are not staying 100% on their intended spectrum spec and are bleeding some unintended interfere noise. I hope the starlink cloud doesn’t interfere so much that it excludes possibility of some research. On earth, if you transmit even slightly out-of-spec radio signals, the government agencies will get mad and really really fast.
ELI5: Low earth orbit is becoming over crowed “FM radio station”, with regulation lacking who can broadcast and at what frequency.
TakatakatakatakatakI am biased here because I am benefiting heavily from each space-x satellite launch.
Without starlink I would not have been able to afford to buy a house. A weird statement I know, but in spite of being a dual-income, tertiary-educated household we were completely priced out of the city I grew up in including even the most far-flung suburbs.
We were also priced out of every other nearby city and their suburbs, and to be frank - never once in my life have I dreamed of holding a mortgage for almost 1 million dollars. That is indentured servitude for the remainder of my working life in my book and I just can’t do it.
With starlink, I am connected to the world. I rely on it to make phone calls, to carry out my work and to socialize. It is the sole pipeline through which we receive all media and entertainment and without it we would have nothing. I am happy living in the middle of nowhere, and I could easily afford a house here.
With that said, starlink already have 12,000 sats in low earth orbit, and plan to bring that number to over 40,000.
The technology works. In two years, I have had one major outage (for which I was financially compensated) but otherwise, not even so much as a slowdown.
If 12K satellites are interfering with the work of science towards common goals of humanity though - 40K will make this much worse. At some point, Space-x must atone for their sins here and do something to help the affected communities. Eg. Launch radio telescopes far above the reach of their low-earth-orbit satellite array and gift its use to the communities whom they have affected.
I don’t think it’s so easy to walk back what space-x have achieved here. Already they have partnered with several telecommunications companies around the world to bring genuine global cell coverage without the need for any towers. This is a massive leap forward for emergency communications, and continues to open possibilities where before there were none.
joolezImagine you are working your entire life in science. To find were we are coming from - were we are going to - spending millions of dollars for the most sophisticated Instruments.
And then some random moron with too much money appears and moons you very few minutes.
dtcMuskrat furiously making alts to downvote.
I head he’ll be done in just 2 years!
ryan213“No, it’s not.” - Elon, probably
I do wonder how much the average people commenting would care if musk had nothing to do with this.
It’s an issue, but it’s an issue scientists knew was coming for decades now. Starlink isn’t the only company putting satellites into low earth orbit. They aren’t the first and the amount of them will just keep coming.
What we need is regulations and requirements for how many, what purpose, how they’ll be dealt with if something goes wrong and when they’re no longer needed, etc. Getting people to share satellites that are already there (when possible) and not putting up satellites that are redundant or don’t provide that much benefit versus non-satellite options or further orbit options will be important.
But all these mindless circlejerkers only talking about musk and wanting starlink “taken down” are really polluting the topic with meaningless bullshit. It’s unfortunate people are bringing these mindless circlejerks over from reddit.
The actual sane take. I swear musk is constantly living rent free in way too many peoples minds.
Honestly, what I took from this is we should have more telescopes that operate outside of the orbits of commercial satellites.
That’s what scientists have wanted anyway, even without the occasional satellite there is a lot of interference. I wouldn’t be surprised if they leveraged this to try to get more funding for more of them they wouldn’t get otherwise.
I wouldn’t mind if my taxes got increased if it meant we had a proper fleet of James Webb-esque telescopes out there.
Ulu-Mulu-no-dieI agree, if it wasn’t Musk there wouldn’t be so much hate most probably, starlink is objectively good for all the people living in rural zones (in some cases just outside of big cities) where internet doesn’t arrive because other companies don’t want to spend the money for it.
There’s plenty of companies that do rural internet. They’re called WISPs (wireless ISPs). Usually small business owners willing to get more customers.
We would give free internet to more than a few farmers willing to let us mount on a silo or elevator. We put up a backhaul, access point, and give them a connection. Free internet for the land owner, we expand our territory, win/win. Then the neighbors just point a link at the AP and we charge them.
Only real requirement is line-of-sight. Towers can reach far. Existing structures usually work, otherwise they can sometimes erect a small tower.
I’ll do ya one better than that.
Because of existing telecom networks its nearly impossible for new fiber companies to do any work in large to medium cities in the US. Even Google couldn’t do it because Comcast/Spectrum/TW wouldn’t allow them to lay cable. In areas not already served by the big ISPs though there’s nearly no red tape. Sandy, Oregon (pop 12,000) laid a municipal fiber network for $30/month. This guy in Michigan said fuck it after he couldn’t get anything laid to his house and built his own ISP.
Because of existing telecom networks its nearly impossible for new fiber companies to do any work in large to medium cities in the US. Even Google couldn’t do it because Comcast/Spectrum/TW wouldn’t allow them to lay cable. In areas not already served by the big ISPs though there’s nearly no red tape. Sandy, Oregon (pop 12,000) laid a municipal fiber network for $30/month. This guy in Michigan said fuck it after he couldn’t get anything laid to his house and built his own ISP.