Peter GleickYou know that metaphor about how a frog in a pot on the stove doesn't know it's heating up and doesn't jump out until it's too late?
The pot has started boiling.
Avocado Toast@petergleick this still works as a metaphor, but in reality the frogs jump out.
So we're less adaptive to subtle environmental changes than frogs.
echo (formerly eve) 👾🏳️⚧️@avocado_toast @petergleick personally I don't engage in humanity self-hate. We also jump out of the pot of boiling water. The climate crisis is just a bit more complicated to jump out of.
Like yeah, you can moan about how humans suck and ignore the problems. But it is, objectively, a very difficult problem. I don't know if the negativity accomplishes anything.
@akkavodol @petergleick do we? Or are we more like the frogs in this cartoon?
@avocado_toast @petergleick we're not. By proportion a significant fraction of humans agree that climate change is a problem. Certainly not 2 to 1 of climate deniers.
Modify the drawing to make the edges of the pot 1 meter tall, requiring significant infrastructure work to get out of, and make the majority of frogs say "the pot is boiling but I don't know what to do about it". That'll be more accurate.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/16/global-climate-change-poll
Black Chic with the Red Truck@akkavodol @avocado_toast @petergleick
And you also need a bunch of billionaires waiting outside to push anyone who gets too far back into the boiling pot.
And you also need a bunch of billionaires waiting outside to push anyone who gets too far back into the boiling pot.
@ReneeWestberry @avocado_toast @petergleick Once again : enough with the humanity self-hate.
A bunch of billionaires selling boats that are contributing to warm the pot but making it much more tolerable in the mean time.
I'm not pretending the situation isn't bad. But y'all just love to describe it as worst than it actually is just so you can indulge in hopeless despair. It's counter-productive. The frogs who are already convinced they're gonna die aren't getting out of the pot either.
@akkavodol @ReneeWestberry @petergleick nobody's "getting out of the pot" because the pot is planet Earth.
Enough with the tone policing. I don't have to be delusional just because you want me to join you in having a bias for positive thought.
If it were possible to solve the climate crisis through manifestation it'd already be accomplished.
@avocado_toast @ReneeWestberry @petergleick this isn't tone policing, this is me telling you that your worldview is inaccurate.
There's this inherent bias in human thinking that convinces us that if a worldview is grim and depressing it has to be true. That's just not how it works. It's just as easy to be wrong because you think things are worst than they really are than the other way around.
I'm just doing my best to bring some perspective into the conversation.
@akkavodol @ReneeWestberry @petergleick where am I wrong? Are we on track to emit less carbon than we did in 2022?
Don't think so.
@akkavodol Oh I was responding to avocado toast. I agree with what you’re saying.
@avocado_toast @akkavodol @petergleick
I don’t know that it’s about you being wrong as it is about people trying to say that the “it’s hopeless and we’re all going to die because humanity is too stupid to even try” is inaccurate as well as counterproductive. Things are bad, yes, but it’s not hopeless and there are people trying to find a way out of the boiling pot and maybe it’s better to lead with that than with the “we all suck” narrative. I don’t think anyone is suggesting or even implying that this can all be solved with “manifestation.”
I don’t know that it’s about you being wrong as it is about people trying to say that the “it’s hopeless and we’re all going to die because humanity is too stupid to even try” is inaccurate as well as counterproductive. Things are bad, yes, but it’s not hopeless and there are people trying to find a way out of the boiling pot and maybe it’s better to lead with that than with the “we all suck” narrative. I don’t think anyone is suggesting or even implying that this can all be solved with “manifestation.”
@ReneeWestberry @akkavodol @petergleick the boiling pot is earth itself and the only people trying to "get out of it" are pursuing planetary exit.
The solution isn't to get out of it in this case, it's to turn the gas on the stove off.
But people are adamant that we actually need to keep increasing the temperature on the cook top every year while insisting that somehow some way we won't boil to death from it.
@avocado_toast Noted
There are people trying to turn off the heat was my point.
There are people trying to turn off the heat was my point.
@ReneeWestberry they get arrested, and then we get opinion articles about how better "forest management" would've prevented the entirety of Canada from catching on fire.
@avocado_toast Yes, I am aware. I live here too.
@avocado_toast I think on this metaphor "getting out of the pot" means reducing our carbon emissions. Not that it's very useful to argue the meaning of a metaphor.
@akkavodol I think it's more useful to clarify terms than to tone police and try to control how others think but that's also just a matter of opinion. 🤷
@akkavodol @petergleick what to do about it is already known: burn less crap, consume less, travel less, etc...but it's not happening at all. Year over year we're actually doing more of all of these things.
There also may be fewer climate change deniers than people who acknowledge the science, but the reach of climate deniers and their control over governmental policy is more than enough to make up for their lack of majority support.
@avocado_toast @petergleick It's not that simple.
If today, right now, we were to turn the oil production down to *no more climate change* level, the consequences would be disastrous. Our industry would collapse. We would no longer be producing enough food, electricity, medicine... for a large fraction of humanity. There would be famines. Wars.
The question is how do we slow climate change without doing more damage than climate change. It's not at all easy.
@akkavodol @petergleick we're not turning it down AT ALL. Carbon emissions rise year over year.
@avocado_toast @petergleick Yes, because the population is rising and the living conditions of people in third world countries is steadily improving.
Slowing climate change by pushing one third of the world back to the level of poverty they were in 50 years ago would be fairly easy.
@akkavodol @petergleick there's always gonna be a reason to burn more and produce more. A coal miner is always going to want to burn more coal. A oil tycoon is always going to want to produce more oil. Ultimately, the motivations don't matter and the results speak for themselves.