VeedemsIt’s all posturing
nul9o9The key difference is that American Government agencies don’t have access to the information TikTok steals from its users.
Exactly this
This is naive. America has all the laws they need to get data from private companies, just the same as China
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆And thanks to Snowden revelations we know for a fact that US companies work directly with US government and share all their user data.
Sure, but there’s a difference between having the potential to do something, and actively doing it. I’m aware the FBI/CIA can get my data from Google if they want it, but something would have to trigger them into wanting to investigate me. With a Chinese company there is no “if”, all of the data goes straight to the CCP. Tencent, the bloated multimedia company, even had a moment of ironic hypocrisy where they didn’t want to give away all of their users’ data.
You’re kidding me? The US and UK governments have literally that
You should probably read your own links. It only reinforces what I said. Also, I’m thankfully not American.
I assume you’re referring to the fact that it claims to be based on court orders
I suggest you look into what the FISA court counts as oversight
This is what people miss. Furthermore, it’s reasonable not to want an enemy state to have access to information relating to a country’s citizens. Yes, the US has done. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. That’s why they’re worried about it. They know how badly that information can be used.
Furthermore, it is clear the Chinese government has an influence over app contents. It is easy for them to use it to shape the opinions of their userbase depending on the country.
Xenophobia (from Ancient Greek ξένος (xénos) ‘strange, foreign, alien’, and φόβος (phóbos) ‘fear’) is the fear or dislike of anything which is perceived as being foreign or strange.
The same fearmongering would’ve happened to American social media apps if it wasn’t for that sweet sweet data the US government is able to get.
Their politicians are geriatric boomers. Biden can barely make sense on his phrases when he speaks. Just let the USA implode
Now do American politicians when an elementary school is attacked by a gunman.
There’d be nothing for the top box.
When a trans person is on a beer can:
When an elementary school is shot up for the 5th time this week by a gunman:
I’ll tell you a secret you might have missed.
It’s not about the privacy.
It’s about a foreign country of similar power levels having the ability to shape your people’s political opinions.
They’re shitting themselves because it’s one of the first times it’s happened to them instead of them doing it to someone else.
It’s about a foreign country of similar power levels having the ability to shape your people’s political opinions.
I think it’s more about the US empire losing its ability to control some people.
Nah. They haven’t lost shit.
They’re just bricking it over turnabout being FairPlay for once.
erogenouswarzoneI feel like the American media is out of control and is no longer a tool of the people, but a fire hose of the wealthy, disseminating whatever will help them keep their power.
They have convinced the people that news makes you intelligent, when really the lack of new ideas and differing viewpoints creates a closed feedback loop so they just regurgitate whatever they hear with absolute confidence, but if you ask them a question it all falls apart.
Fox, CNN, New York Times, NPR, it’s all owned or supported in such a way that they dare not bite the hand that feeds it.
So I, for one, am open to hearing what foreign countries have to say.
No matter what your source of information is, you always have to be mindful and take information in context, and be sure to validate unproven claims. There’s a thousand interests competing for your attention and loyalty, and a lot of it is driven through fear and uncertainty.
Any fearmongering about China makes me uncomfortable, as it should every rational thinking person. Just like fearmongering against everyone should be viewed with suspicion.
Be careful out there, everyone. It’s a wild jungle.
its almost like foreign governments collecting information about your population is a bad thing for your people and your government, or something.
It’s worse for the US to have my data as a Canadian than China. America can come for me, and my country would hand me over. China can’t do shit to me.
America would lose all standing in global politics and the global economy if they invaded Canada without very strong reason. If the US started a war with China tomorrow, half the world, Canada included, would either do nothing or join them.
They’re talking about extradition
Wtf does that have to do with anything? Were talking about large scale spying not infringing on American copyrights.
… And when they are spying, and see something they don’t like, they CAN come for me. Canadian government won’t stop them.
I don’t want a shitty country like America to spy on me. Sorry. America is not as great as Americans act like it is.
Like I’ve said, I want no one to spy on me. But if I had to pick, I’d pick China because it makes me safer. Not because I’d like it. I wouldn’t. Fuck spying.
Yeah, the US is really gunna come after you because…? Right, there is no way your government would give you over without actual evidence.
It seems like you don’t understand the point.
I also think it’s really weird that Americans are applying to me being really defensive over other countries not preferring to give America all their data.
Like I said, America isn’t as great as Americans think it is. The rest of the world doesn’t want their data funneled into America. I’m sorry if this is how you’re finding out that America isn’t number one.
I’m really not trying to be a dick or argue, I just don’t get how you don’t understand the basic concept that Canada will hand me over to the US, but won’t hand me over to China.
It’s also frustrating that you guys think that if I don’t agree with America having my data, that I love China? I don’t. Never said I did. I hate both places having my data. I hate my own country having my data. It’s not all black and white.
If you believe your country would hand over any citizen to the US just because the US said so, your issue is with your country, not the US. the problem with China spying on the west through TikTok is that they can use that information to manipulate the population without stepping foot on foreign soil. And they’re already doing this with TikTok. The content Chinese users get vs the content western users get is so drastically different that they’re not even the same platform. This int about extradition, it’s about information and control. And while you could argue that the US uses these platforms to control other countries, and I would point out that Russia is clearly much more effective at using them, and they don’t even own them.
I’m not having this argument lmao. Go back to Reddit if you want to have a back and forth about 'Murica numba 1!
Also, not quite sure what you mean about the algorithm. I watch TikTok and get all American and Canadian content creators about technology, animals, comedy, and science. If you’re getting manipulation content, perhaps that’s on you?
Your tinfoil hat is too tight.
you’re entire argument is that america collecting canadian citizens information is worse than china because china can’t extradite you… because they’re under such poor terms with western governments that none of them would extradite a national to china. and this argument ignores 2 things, 1, the evidence that these countries legally subpoenaed from these corporations needs to be significant for any of the western nations to extradite to any of each other. 2, the fact that china has such a poor reputation on the national stage that these countries will not cooperate with tiny bullshit their citizens might get into with the CCP. you have to be dumb blind and stupid to think extradition is the issue here.
you have to be dumb blind and stupid to think extradition is the issue here.
Reddit.com is that way. I am now blocking you because I am not going to be the type of person that turns Lemmy into Reddit 2.0
My simple point still stands. Again, sorry you don’t realize that no one wants America to have their data. Your country is falling apart. I mean damn, you’re so upset about something you disagree with, that you’re calling me dumb, blind, and stupid. Did you grab a thesaurus and type all of the words you read on the one page? because two of those things mean the same thing.
Sorry to everyone else reading this thread. I did not mean to start a petty argument on Lemmy.
My simple point still stands
your simple point holds no water. canada won’t extradite a national to the US without evidence and legal charges being brought. china can’t extradite you because canada won’t cooperate with them.
new user freshly connected to internet, would you rather:
-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in usa, or
-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in china
muffinWhy not spend your time on a Japanese platform? We got anime ~
Japanese sites have web ui designs that are pretty bad. Argue way worse than having to use the official reddit app ad wise.
CalcProgrammer1Is wasting my precious time and attention on an anticapitalist hellscape headquartered on distributed servers around the world an option?
as long as it lasts
I would pick whatever entertains me the most.
FartsWithAnAccentBoth are bad.
But only one is a national security threat.
Depends on the perspective
Match!!Is it the one that radicalizes people into white supremacist terrorism?
vegantomatoCan’t we just say that both are bad?
We should be saying both are bad. We need much stronger, EU like privacy laws.
I think that is generally the point?
Often Americans point to china as big bad for shit America is actively doing as well, while pretending America is so great. They both fucking suck. They both want to be the major super power and to do so they both do horrible shit to their own people, people in other countries, entire other countries, both extremely capitalistic, etc.
politicians are actively talking about banning tiktok. let me know when they do the same for twitter, instagram, reddit, facebook, tinder, youtube, google, amazon, and every other US site that does the exact same snooping that tiktok does. THEN we can say “both are bad”.
I think you’ve got it backwards. If we can’t acknowledge that both are bad before talking about banning them, then what justification do we have for banning them?
Americans when Canadians say they’d prefer TikTok spying vs an American company:
but seriously. I want no one to have my data, but if someone HAD to have it, I would prefer TikTok over anything from Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, etc…
My country wont export me to China if I post something negative or pirate something. My country will export me to the US if they come banging on my door. I am quite literally safer letting China have a bit of my data.
This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. The concerns are “capitalist targeted advertising” vs “a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it’s people”.
Is lemmygrad leaking??
Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn’t get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
I’m not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it’s very easy to say edgy inflammatory like “I’d rather China have my data”, but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
So am I, but “harder” doesn’t mean “hard”.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over?
You’re confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that’s probably a tertiary concern at best.
And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data […]
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don’t believe you’re correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US “security” agencies meddling with my country’s government, I’ll tell you internally generated propaganda is much more dangerous.
You missed the very important word “legally”. We know, however, that the FBI doesn’t give a shit about doing things legally.
You don’t know how end to end encryption works do you?
YOU don’t understand how encryption works, do you?
I do, I work with it, but classic “I know your are but what am I” argument lmao
b3nsn0wNo, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok’s spying, as if people aren’t already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone “get away” with spying, so saying Tiktok should “also” be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook’s tracking policies with “oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?” Because I sure haven’t, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It’s just so disingenuous… allow people to discuss topics, we’ll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don’t worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you’re trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you’re talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that’s behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden “western democracy”, has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups…
Which is why I wouldn’t blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I’m sorry, “we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn’t ensure our own national security” is a completely lunatic take.