Jon WorthJul 4, 2023

If you’re reading this toot there’s a pretty high chance you’ve asked yourself ethical questions about your social media use *and that’s why you’re here*

You’ve likewise probably got concerns about Meta and Threads

But the 90-odd % of your friends you left behind on Facebook, Insta etc. likely don’t have those concerns to the same extent as you

Mastodon has to win on user experience *as well as on ethics*. We can’t just berate the Meta users

Show threadWaineJul 4, 2023
@jon I'm not the only person to mention this, but a big part of the UX is the volume of users.
Yes, there is a little more friction in sign up. But really the best draw for a social network is the content. And that's kind of up to us I guess.
Show threadWaine
@jon There is a lurking fear behind that 90+% of people don't care to the same extent. Social media is probably the lowest stake venue where we see this.
In the analogy, if you're right, it feels like we're doomed to pursuing market based solutions to our problems. Is there no other way?
Jul 4, 2023 at 9:25amWeb
Show threadJon WorthJul 4, 2023
@rwtwm I've tried over and over to get friends to take more ethical tech choices. Largely without success... Explained more here: https://euroblog.jonworth.eu/it-is-ease-of-use-and-ease-of-search-thats-going-to-make-or-break-a-twitter-alternative-not-the-ethics/
It is ease of use, and ease of search, that's going to make or break a Twitter alternative. Not the ethics. - Jon Worth Euroblog

For years I have been fighting a losing battle with friends – trying to make them see that the choices of the tech they use should be similar to how they choose what food to buy, or how to travel – namely that there are ethical values bound up in […]

Jon Worth Euroblog
Show threadWaineJul 4, 2023

@jon That's a good read. I thought I'd have a go at searching after reading it, and it took me a while to even find the function!

If I read it right though, your issue is more with the fact that your server has to have seen it for it to appear in search? Maybe there's a gap for an activity pub index facility?

Show threadSimon FrankauJul 4, 2023

@jon @rwtwm The way I've been thinking about it, it doesn't have to be market-based, as Waine fears, but it does have to be product-based - that is, building with those who aren't here but who we want here in mind, rather than building for those already here (and "don't see what the problem is"). Without breaking things for existing users, obviously.

Companies are good at building products, but we can be better (no ads, no engagement-through-hate, etc.) if we put our minds to it.

Show threadWaineJul 4, 2023
@sgf @jon I'm not sure who can be the stakeholder on behalf of those that aren't here though. Our analogues are with profit driven companies, so their aims are different.
The things that the fediverse is competing against were once novel, and now are successful via inertia. Those factors can't be recreated.
Show threadSimon FrankauJul 4, 2023

@rwtwm @jon Oh, yeah, it's tough. In some sense, I don't think stakeholders are the issue. Users can advocate for those not here, just as an exec might in a co.

I think the issue is the lack of product focus and tools. We can't take random ppl off the street and do UX tests etc. We have to make do.

As for the other sites... they're self-destructing right now. Just not falling apart should be a big advantage. :)

Show threadWhat's it to you?Jul 4, 2023
@jon @rwtwm Why do you settle for unethical friends; what does that say about you? Conversely (and more importantly), what does it say about you that you require this same behavior of others?
Show threadWaineJul 4, 2023
@alltherum @jon I don't think either of those statements are true of either of us. They certainly can't be inferred from what we've written.
Show threadWhat's it to you?Jul 4, 2023

@rwtwm Apologies Wain; that was to Jon's thesis.

I disagree with volume of content equaling successful (it really depends on signal to noise), but that's a different (less contentious) discussion!

Show threadJon WorthJul 4, 2023
@alltherum @rwtwm I'm not an absolutist. I am vegetarian, but I don't oblige all my friends to do likewise. I can't oblige all my friends to make what I consider ethical technical choices - they might like Meta for all I know.
Show threadWhat's it to you?Jul 4, 2023
@jon @rwtwm You're asking others to accept Meta because it *might* otherwise impede your friend's unethical preference?
Show threadJon WorthJul 4, 2023
@alltherum @rwtwm What? Hell no! You make whatever ethical choice you want, and I am not going to mess with it. But likewise if friends of mine want to use Meta services I have to decide how to deal with that - no communication, or communication at a price. That's all.
Show threadWhat's it to you?Jul 4, 2023

@jon @rwtwm Which is exactly why I don't, and would never, knowingly eat meat in the presence of a vegetarian.

I have that option; so do Metans. If they valued communication, they can come here without dragging an animal carcass behind them.

Being ethical means more than abstaining, it means challenging the unethical to do the right thing. We all fall short, but we also benefit when others hold us to higher standards.