@ocornut EU cookie law is not the problem. You don't need to ask for consent for essential cookies, like the ones that store your login session ID or the shopping cart in a web store.
Every time you see the cookie popup, it's about selling your browsing data to third parties.
We see these popups everywhere and the reasoning is "the EU did something stupid", but it's the opposite. They caught the thieves red-handed.
"We value your privacy." Yeah, no shit. By putting a monetary value on it.
First of all, the law requires denying consent to be as easy as accepting cookies. Sites could just default to no cookies, with a small cookie banner across the bottom of the site. They do the full page multiple choice pop-ups to annoy you on purpose and to turn people off from supporting GDPR. Fuck that.
@ablackpanther @wolfpld @ocornut
Sites cannot default to no cookies. They need to earn money somehow (ads)
How many newspapers do you subscribe to?
The law is actually very specific, and does require consent
@ablackpanther
I did not say "secure" and incognito alone is not enough, but it is a very important tool, and much better than not using it (because you want the website to remember your consent lol(
So you didn't answer the question, how many newspapers do you pay? Let me guess, zero
@samir So how much less money do they get from non-targeted ads? Maybe a few cents.
Asking about how much one person pays for website subscriptions is irrelevant to the discussion of the larger ecosystem.
@ablackpanther it's actually very relevant, I am very familiar with the space. A very small percentage of people pay because most think they are entitled to free services.
Most people don't understand that free means you pay with things other than money.
And non targeted ads are garbage, the brokers would stop sending you good ads because you don't convert.
People who came up with this stupid idea have no clue how it works or how to solve it.
@ablackpanther you are right about this.
But as you type, did you not realize that they didn't solve the root cause and just made things worse for us without solving anything?
They forced the website owners to show a false sense of privacy, and they didn't enforce the laws on those who don't care about laws (the ones who actually sell your data) and left the brokers do whatever they want (buy your data and sell it to others)
Politicians are good at pretending they are doing something
@samir They enforced this on the primary generators of this data. The point being that it shouldn't even be collected in the first place. Of course GDPR can be improved, but I imagine it would not have passed if it used even stronger language, because lobbyists. And the super annoying pop-ups are absolutely not the default requirement. It's just the terrible implementation using dark patterns.
And considering the stories you hear from the US about multiple spam calls a day, I'll take it.
They are spray calling numbers without knowing who you are, nothing to do with browsing
And again, those who sell your data are not impacted at all by this law, because they would not tell you what data they took from you in the first place
At the end of the day those who make an effort to give you content need to get paid, and I bet you that most of those who complain about ads here never donated to their instance admin, nor to the one who built the software!
@samir Same kind of privacy invading bullshit.
The law says the websites you interact with should not collect your data all before you even get to the "selling off to data brokers" part unless you opt in.
I agree that people need to get paid. They don't need to make a profit off other people's data ignoring any wider problems. Privacy nightmare and completely free are not the only two options!
@ablackpanther
again, you think the laws are protecting you, but they actually are not
It is doing the opposite of what you think they do.
If you scroll right back at the top of this thread, you will notice that I am advocating for Incognito browsing because the websites that sell your data don't even follow GDPR rules, and GDPR makes it a hell to use Incognito.
It sounds like this conversation has gotten off track.
And yes, go pay your Mastodon Admin, and donate to Mastodon org
@samir
Thought this article might help the discussion.
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3313831.3376321
Also "choke point capitalism" by Rebecca Goblin and Cory Doctorow mention how GDPR helped big ad companies as they are the only ones able to comply.
Maybe forbidding tracking completely might have done the trick.
Bartosz Taudul
Samir Al-Battran
ablackpanther
Andrés (personal views)