Aral BalkanJul 1, 2023
Late-stage capitalism? That was last week. Welcome to extinction-stage capitalism.
Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@aral Not going to start a huge debate here, I just have to get something off my chest. My personal emotion, not saying others have to agree, but here goes:
"Late-stage capitalism _fill_in_gripe_" looks, to me, just like rubber-necking at a highway pile-up. A lot of the world, including all the *isms seem a bit "late stage" these days. Changing the course of our societies does not hang on any *ism, or "system". It all boils down to bad faith actors (people and decision-making bodies)1/*
Show threadRDJul 1, 2023

@hakona

When I see comments like this ("it's not any 'ism', the system isn't the problem, it's just bad people") I assume the poster knows next to nothing about actual #capitalism

Am I wrong?

@aral

Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸
@RD4Anarchy @aral Sorry for being a bit there-not-there. To put my view another way. If I lived in the US , I'd be living under a bridge, if at all. I live, reasonably happily, in a Nordic country. Both "capitalist" systems.
Jul 1, 2023 at 4:13pmWeb
Show threadRDJul 1, 2023

@hakona

I'm glad you're reasonably happy. Good for you.

Every country in the world is capitalist, I hope you understand that. Capital rules the world whether it is personified by private owners or state ownership.

@aral

Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@RD4Anarchy @aral The term late stage capitalism goes together with marx' theories, which say we will end up some day in a system that is not "capitalist". Entirely the wrong thing to be thinking about if you want to improve the world we live in now, imo.
Show threadRDJul 1, 2023

@hakona

I don't subscribe to any particular scheme about "phases" of capitalism. I appreciate Marx's contributions to the analysis and critique of capitalism but I don't consider myself a Marxist nor is my understanding based specifically on his ideas. There are numerous other paths to anti-capitalism.

If we were having this discussion back in the early 1800's would you have said that thinking about a post-slavery world would be the wrong thing to do if you wanted to improve the world we're living in now (1800's)?

You would be advocating not the abolition of slavery but rather for making slaves "reasonably happy" somehow?

@aral

Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@RD4Anarchy @aral
Re. end of slavery: that was a set of laws that could be (and were) changed without upending [edit: was changing] the system of government in the US. The changes were not enforced strictly enough by federal govt. , so the south managed to work around the changed laws, but that leaves the point still valid, system of government, financial system was left intact. The agricultural business had a "system" that was obviously ripped apart at the end of slavery.
Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@RD4Anarchy @aral My original comment was specifically about the term "late stage captitalism", it not being usful other than as a joke at the expense of ourselves, how we run the world. By all means, we need jokes, but that one is a bit tired.
Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@RD4Anarchy @aral
For "anti-capitalism" to be useful, we need an agreed-upon definition of capitalism. In my usage, "capitalism" is a financial system where people own stuff, to buy and sell as they wish. It's still capitalist even if the state imposes taxes and regulations about "stuff", what can be legally owned, how to handle externalities etc.
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Show threadSpeed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jul 1, 2023
@RD4Anarchy @aral
Some people take "capitalism" to necessarily mean that the actions taken by entities like Musk, big tobacco, energy companies, agribusiness, Monsanto, big pharma etc. are and should be legal. I belive they can and should be regulated. If that drives them out of business, then so be it.
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