GlyphJun 29, 2023
I do agree with Red Hat that we ought to ensure that the people who *really* make open source software need to be fairly compensated
Show threadJames BennettJun 29, 2023

@glyph I really dislike these takes, given that RH has in fact contributed a ton to the software they include in their distributions and to the Linux ecosystem as a whole.

I also worry what this does to ongoing conversations about sustainable OSS maintainership if our knee-jerk reaction is to say we expect to get not just the software but also the ongoing maintenance gratis and that complainers are to be shunned and mocked.

Show threadNoah KJun 29, 2023
@ubernostrum @glyph I don't think anyone is saying Red Hat doesn't deserve to get paid, I've even literally said that. But I think it's very fair to point out the hypocrisy of Red Hat standing on the shoulders of (free) giants and saying "this far but no further”. _Everyone_ involved should be getting paid but I see no reason that Red Hat's efforts are of a different kind that is more deserving than everyone else, so their current position comes off as rent seeking rather than community boosting
Show threadJames BennettJun 29, 2023

@coderanger @glyph My issue is with all the hot takes premised on RH being a mere repackager. Which they are not.

I don’t know what the right way to try to get paid for a service like RHEL is, but I’m tired of takes that pretend there’s nothing of value added by RH.

Show threadJc2kJun 30, 2023
@ubernostrum @coderanger @glyph well said. I am having a hard time with the lies myself. Also, some of the conduct from the people angry with this change has been really disappointing. Abusing RH staff that are politely telling you how RHEL is actually made to try and stop the misinformation unfortunately invalidates a lot of the passionate arguments I’ve heard.
Show threadGlyphJun 30, 2023
@jc2k @ubernostrum @coderanger I guess I need to say this, then: harassing redhat employees is not okay. First of all 99% of them have nothing to do with this decision, and second they probably do good work in the ecosystem outside of this one unfortunate shift in strategy. I don't think we should be censoring every critical thought about a corporation because an employee *might* get harassed, but it is nevertheless a bad thing when it happens.
Show threadJc2k
@glyph @ubernostrum @coderanger oh absolutely, unfortunately I’ve seen some prominent actors (community leaders of sort) in this discussion loudly and consistently disparage individual people - calling them ibm shills, using language like “I know your not that stupid”. It’s disgusting to see that in response to genuine engagement, and its dominated the discourse I’ve seen around what has actually been lost.
Jun 30, 2023 at 4:56pmWeb
Show threadGlyphJun 30, 2023
@jc2k @ubernostrum @coderanger that is a huge bummer.
Show threadJc2kJun 30, 2023
@glyph btw the thing I’ve seen repeated from RH staff is that Stream isnt a dev or beta release, it’s prod grade. Every Stream RPM has had RHEL QA. Stream should as safe or safer than running apt upgrade on Ubuntu LTS. I’ve seen it called a dev release by Ubuntu staff, that seems to be very wrong. This is probably why RH staff are confused about the fuss - to them everything is still open, and centos is a free and open enterprise grade os anyone can use today for free.
Show threadJc2kJun 30, 2023
@glyph when I objectively read the engineering posts about how centos stream actually works and how it means RHEL dev now happens in public and not behind closed doors, some of the posts from the angry people read like conspiracy posts. For me, this situation is not open and shut case of evil like it seems to be for some…