I want to apologize again for the sudden block from mstdn to .art💔
Some say it's because they where bashing on meta but that's untrue.
The admin was spreading mis information about the discussion that only fueled the fire and not the discussion with knowing any of the facts
If a "user" does this we can handle accordingly but when an admin does this it's getting worrisome
We should not figh each other but rather talk about it like adults, and also I am to blame in this
It won't happen again
Another thing I would like to adres is the death threats against mods and admins in the Fediverse
No matter what you oppion is about the meta discussion, this is not acceptable behaviour and it hurt so damn much
Please try to be civil about this so we can talk and discus this and keep the channels open
But please, stop with making death threats to people. It really has an impact
Let's talk
@ifixcoinops here is an example of death threat received by someone almost certainly in relation to the whole meta debate:
https://calckey.social/notes/9g89q9mfyu3sbtgl
Someone just sent me a “kill yourself” meme. I suspect that person wants Meta to be entirely Fediblocked by everyone—and any deviation from that agenda sends them over the edge. By the way, I’m setting up servers that won’t federate with Meta so I see the merit of blocking them. However, I’m also setting up servers that will interoperate with Meta—I think more interoperability hurts Meta than otherwise. The Fediblock purists don’t like that, I guess. But if that’s the kind of thing that provokes people to send me death wishes, I don’t want anything to do with that extremism. Those gatekeepers can go fuck off.
@ifixcoinops but that's not what you asked for.
You asked if Stux knows of specific death threats, and implied this is made up. Now you're moving the goal posts. That's just crap, my friend.
Stux did not say he personally got death threats, nor that they came from .art. He mentioned death threats against mods and admins on fedi.
If you can't get yourself to acknowledge that *death threats* are not an acceptable way to react to a conversation, then maybe you have some soul-searching to do.
@ifixcoinops I don't know, and it's immaterial. He did not say that he did, he did not say they came from .art.
I am waiting for you to acknowledge that death threats are not acceptable conduct, on fedi or anywhere else.
@ifixcoinops what does this have to do with anything?
And how is this kind of personal jab appropriate here?
@rysiek @ifixcoinops Stux phrased his comments in a way that implies that he had received death threats from the admin or a user of .art, and that this somehow excused or justified his decisions and behaviors.
Perhaps he didn't mean to do this, but his choice of language has consistently shifted the blame for actions he took on to other people.
This, to me, is concerning. I am glad I do not depend on him as an admin.
@ajroach42 I did not read it that way at all. I don't really see how it could be read that way. But if anyone read it that way, the right way to react is first asking if this is what he meant. Not going all "shady-ass games" on the thread, as that only escalates an already very heated situation.
And I think we can all agree that the situation needs to become less heated, pronto.
@rysiek @ifixcoinops indeed.
It's almost as if what happens here is important to people.
@ajroach42 because it is. All the more reason to keep things in perspective, and do our best to de-escalate.
In the end we're all on the same side, even though it's easy to lose sight of that in the heat of the moment.
People might have different approaches to the Meta problem, but when the rubber hits the road, the more fragmented we are, the weaker we are.
And we *can be* undivided even if we have different approaches to the problem at hand.
@rysiek @ifixcoinops oh sure.
And I've long since made my mind up about meta.
What I'm concerned about now is stux's recent behavior towards other admins, and the abusive nature of the language that he employs to defend himself.
(I am assuming stux uses he/him. Stux is suspended from this instance, so I can't check. Please do let me know if I am wrong.)
@ajroach42 @ifixcoinops (I am making te same assumption, no explicit mention of pronouns on the profile)
I've seen abusive language from all directions over the last few days. Stux at least apologized publicly for some of it. Does not make it okay, of course, but it's a step.
People got all sorts of angry, and did all sorts of very unexcellent things. And now we all have to live with the consequences. So I will do my best to push back against any escalation I see. Because we can't afford it.
@ajroach42 thank you.
I hope fedi admins can maybe sit down, off-fedi, and talk stuff out, instead of holding grudges and fragmenting fedi.
I see Stux's apology as a potential first step in that direction. I hope others could to, with time.
But I guess that's just me. 🤷♀️
1) Why do we have to talk out of band?
2) The fediverse is already pretty fragmented, that's part of what makes it work. I'm here to build a community, I'm not here to provide a neutral utility.
I'm trying to make it easier for people to self host, so that conversations like this become less significant.
1.
Because talking in-band seems to only create more fractures.
Because talking in-band ends up talking publicly and with an audience, with all the baggage and egging-on and whatnot that this brings.
Because maybe a change of venue will help break out of some of the assumptions involved in all of this.
2.
Yes fedi is already fragmented. But this feels different.
It feels, sorry to put it so bluntly, like admins holding grudges and acting on them, with communities turning into mobs and cheering and egging them on.
Stux's block of .art is a great, extremely sad example of exactly that. But it did not happen in a vacuum.
It's not about a neutral utility, it's about not acting out mob mentality.
I am not personally accusing you of it, I am saying this how last few days feel like.
@rysiek Sure, tensions are high and people are holding grudges, but I think that it's disingenuous to ignore the facts that
1) Stux, the admin of the instance you're using, instigated a lot of this behavior by agreeing to speak with facebook under an NDA.
2) Stux exacerbated these tensions by acting out against his critics, unilaterally suspending another large instance, and then blaming the admin of that instance. Then repeatedly doubled down on claims that the admin was "nasty" (a term which is often used in sexist contexts).
3) Stux runs some of the largest instances on the fediverse.
It's not like people suddenly just decided to start a fight. They are specifically responding to a difficult, tense situation, and to the poor way one of the people at the center of it handled this tense, difficult situation.
If a smaller instance admin had started this kind of drama, I would have already defederated and moved on with my life.
> 1) Stux, the admin of the instance you're using, instigated a lot of this behavior by agreeing to speak with facebook under an NDA.
He did not.
Asked directly, he very clearly said he did not attend the meeting, and that he did not sign the NDA. I see no reason to doubt his response here.
Edit — receipt link:
https://mstdn.social/@stux/110571052358329971
It’s kinda sad to see people think I’m ’bribed’ by Meta.. I have not signed anything, I did not attend anything from them nor did I accept anything but still the worst is assumed when I don’t agree on blocking a still in development project that we don’t even know the (domain)name from right away I don’t have any love for Meta or any of such companies whatsoever, that’s why I’m putting all I have in these platforms and guard it with my life so don’t expect Meta to get a ‘free pass’ on anything
> 2) Stux exacerbated these tensions by acting out against his critics
Critics who kept insisting, without proof and after his explicit, public denial of this, that he did did attend and sign. Which again, I have no reason to believe he did, after his unambiguous denial.
@ajroach42 so put yourself in this situation.
You get accused of doing something like that.
You deny it clearly. People ignore that and keep insisting that you did it anyway.
Emotions are riding high, people start being angry with you based on a thing you did not do.
Very easy for yourself to get into a mental state where you say or do things you would otherwise not have said or done.
@ifixcoinops of course not. It's baseless fear mongering trying to paint someone he disagrees with as a threat while not technically lying.
Silly word games calculated to turn a community against an individual.
Classic techbro outburst, and I hope he suffers for it.
He's been suspended here. I'm giving his instance a few more days.
@ifixcoinops I'll make sure everyone has enough notice to take action before I defed. I don't want to cause chaos.
I try to get out of band confirmation from everyone before taking any actions.
@ajroach42 glad to hear you will give good notice before defed.
There are thousands of 'users' (myself included) on Stux's instances (the vast majority of whom I suspect are mostly unaware of the developing situation). And I don't hold out much hope that they will ever be fully informed.
stux⚡️
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