OmnipotentEntity

Missing Titan submersible is operated by a cheap game controller

https://beehaw.org/post/659303

Missing Titan submersible is operated by a cheap game controller - Beehaw

> the Logitech F710 is a solid controller to get if you’re on a tight budget, but perhaps not exactly the type of equipment you want to stake your life on. […] Reviewers on sites like Amazon frequently mention issues with the wireless device’s connection. > The reporter, who followed an expedition of the Titan from the launch ship, wrote that “it seems like this submersible has elements of MacGyver jerry-riggedness.”

Jun 20, 2023 at 2:14pmWeb
Show threadOmnipotentEntityJun 20, 2023

Also of interest via this blog is this statement from OceanGate about why their subs aren't classed.

innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.

Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation.

It gets worse

Originally found here [https://twitter.com/wyatt_privilege/status/1670954948840898567]. From the company blog [https://oceangate.com/news-and-media/blog/2019-0221-why-titan-is-not-classed.html]: > innovation is outside of an already accepted system. However, this does not mean that OceanGate does meet standards where they apply, but it does mean that innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm. > Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation. Oh boy.

Cariad on cohost
Show threadMrWhiteJun 20, 2023
“Move fast and break things” maybe doesn’t apply too well to submarine design.
Show threadremmonJun 20, 2023
Especially when the previous smaller version of the same design, with the same materials, had problems with it coming apart a few years back.
Show threadblivetJun 20, 2023
At my old job the director of my department had a poster up that said "move fast and break things", but he also demanded 99.9999% uptime.
Show threadcomicallyclutteredJun 20, 2023

innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.

Lol, the fuck is this even supposed to mean? Just say regulations. You know, honesty, with a touch of bullshit at the end.

Something like:

"Regulations are too difficult to deal with when you've got a substandard machine which wouldn't pass any of the requisite safety tests.

If someone happens to die, we've determined this to be acceptable collateral.

This is also known as innovation."

Show threadCold HotmanJun 20, 2023
I watched the video in the article. I don't think I'd be comfortable submerging at all in that thing, let alone all the way down to the Titanic. I hope they've had technical issues, blown the ballast and is floating around somewhere waiting to be spotted.
Show threadxffxe4Jun 20, 2023
Personally I think the best case scenario is for it to have imploded and they all died instantly. Any other option seems like torture to me.
Show threadCold HotmanJun 20, 2023
Surely the best case scenario is that they're floating around on the surface somewhere. Unless you expect that means an inevitable slow death from thirst and hunger...
Show thread 🇺🇦 seirim Jun 20, 2023
That’s my fear in this case, and it can be occurring at the surface or down below - not sure which is worse.
Show threadremmonJun 20, 2023
Floating on the surface is only barely better than stranded deep underwater, there's no hatch for them to open so they'll still be limited by oxygen and there's no locator beacon that might help rescuers find them.
Show threadSelfAwareCoderJun 20, 2023
Well the sub can't be opened from the inside, so if they're floating on the surface they'll still run out of air if not found. And people really underestimate how hard it is to find small craft in the ocean. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, with the added twist that the ocean currents move stuff around so the search area grows
Show threadNocturnalNebulaJun 20, 2023
Yeah I think they mentioned it was the area the size of Connecticut…
Show threadGreenPlasticSushiGrassJun 20, 2023
I hope the best for them as well, but even if they make it to the surface, they can still suffocate because they're bolted in from the outside.
Show threadRotaryKeyboardJun 20, 2023
Water and an X-Box controller. What could possibly go wrong?
Show threadMrWhiteJun 20, 2023
Well, if there’s water inside the sub you probably have more serious problems to deal with.
Show threadLittleKerrJun 20, 2023
To be fair at that depth if there's water inside the sub you have 0 problems to deal with because you are dead
Show threadomnilynxJun 20, 2023
I was about to defend this (the US military uses XBox controllers for subs & drones), but then I saw that it was off-brand. No excuse for that.
Show threadKiller_TreeJun 20, 2023
Same, we use XBox controllers to operate remote cameras for pipeline inspections and they usually survive far longer than is reasonable considering some of the abuse we put them through. That being said, I have no idea about the quality of Logitech, but at the very least they should have had a backup controller available as it would have a small footprint and be a huge failsafe.
Show threadOmnipotentEntityJun 20, 2023

Amazon Link

2 AA batteries required. (included)

They forgot to change the batteries before sending the sub out 💀

Amazon.com

Show threadThndrchldJun 20, 2023
Man. That’s the control you give to your little brother because you don’t want him to get the good control all sticky.
Show threadBurningnnTreeJun 20, 2023
It seems like a really bad idea to use a wireless controller instead of a wired one. But I guess it shouldn't matter as long as they have a backup wired controller in case the wireless one dies.
Show threadGramJun 20, 2023

I think there's more to it than that.

When working at industrial factories if I catch a glimpse of something run off a cheap consumer alternative to the standard industry equipment I immediately question everything. If they're willing to skimp on that item, where else have they skimped?

Show threadBucket_of_TruthJun 20, 2023

Check out this video where the owner shows off the sub.

He bought parts from RV world!

A visit to RMS Titanic

YouTube
Show threadmeat_popsicleJun 20, 2023
You take that back! Camper World is a hallmark of quality, I bought all my kidney extraction equipment from there!
Show threadMugmoorJun 20, 2023
I take it you haven't heard about what happened to this sub.
Show threadCmdrShepardJun 20, 2023
Laugh now but when it comes out that the Logitech controller was the only thing to survive the implosion, you'll look pretty foolish.
Show threadCmdrShepardJun 20, 2023
Hopefully they at least have some spare AA batteries to swap in when it dies in the middle of a match.
Show threadImplyingImplicationsJun 20, 2023
The next version will use a Mad Catz controller
Show threadDoucheAsaurusJun 20, 2023
Budget cuts smh
Show threadjargogglesJun 20, 2023
The sub's older brother always gets to use the good controller.
Show thread 🇺🇦 seirim Jun 20, 2023

UK billionaire Hamish Harding, who holds three Guinness World Records and was both in space and in the lowest depth of the Mariana Trench, is one of the people currently on board the Titan.

Yikes, that’ll be some big trouble for them

Show threadCoWizardJun 20, 2023
Lets hope the company stays afloat after this one. Hopefully they can get more billionaires to sign on
Show threadAngrilyEatingMuffinsJun 20, 2023
Yayyyy
Show threadFauxreignerJun 20, 2023
And yet, probably second to the billionaire CEO also being in it.
Show threadnicetriangleJun 20, 2023
Can you imagine paying $250k to ride in this death trap?
Show threadargv_minus_oneJun 20, 2023

They could afford to pay $250k for a vacation, and they voluntarily rode this deathtrap?!

Proof positive that being rich doesn't make you smart.

Show threadDouble_AJun 21, 2023
Where they get to watch the Titanic oh a fricking TV! It could as well just have been a simulation with a small robot that actually goes and films the Titanic.
Show threadliminisJun 24, 2023

What weirded me out was it was being cast as a joint exploration effort when one of the members was charging the others. Would seem like a total grift, given the cost-cutting steps, if not for the owner/'designer' putting their own life on the line too.

Such deep sea submersibles are inherently a bit of an experimental industry, but even a cursory scan of opinions from others in that community seems to suggest it's seen as extremely not-kosher to put others' lives on the line with your experimental craft. Dude just seems to have been a bit nutty, and not altogether considerate enough of his own wellbeing or others'.

Show threadalephJun 21, 2023

Especially when you have to sign a waiver that literally reads:

"This experimental vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, emotional trauma, or death." Source

CEO of missing Titanic Sub company once downplayed danger of voyage: ‘Shouldn’t take a lot of skill’

YouTube
Show threadnicetriangleJun 21, 2023
fuckin yikes
Show threadBaroqueInMindJun 20, 2023
What an absolute shit way to die: freeze to death from hypothermia due to the electric heaters running out of battery, crushed to death by water pressure compressing you inside a compartment, or drown to death in a dark unforgiving cold that strips you completely from all hope as it slowly rises and takes your precious air.
Show threadCalchargerJun 20, 2023
So is everyone else thinking they accidentally fucking plowed into the Titanic because a controller input got stuck?
Show threadAnomanderJun 20, 2023

That or lost connection/battery.

The only wireless controller I ever owned would continue any repeating input active when connection dropped, if batteries or wifi died; they could just be cruising at max speed off in whatever direction they were facing, until the motor batteries run dry.

You'd like to think they'd carry backup interface, or even just use a wired controller, but this whole op sounds pretty McGuyver top to bottom.

Show threadcomicallyclutteredJun 20, 2023

Honestly, if they actually did ram the Titanic, it would be kind of funny in a fucked up way.

Like, the "joke" would be: what do an iceberg and a claustrophobic submarine have in common?

Show threadFauxreignerJun 21, 2023
Pretty unlikely. It's easy to dunk on them for the controller, but they apparently carried backups, and it's nowhere near the most concerning thing about their operations. It's much more likely that their extremely brittle carbon-fiber hull fatigued (again) and the ship was crushed in a fraction of a second.
Show threadArtieShawJun 20, 2023

Holy shit. BBC has a short video that shows the interior of the sub and how it's controlled. It's a featureless tube with one button and the wireless controller. I wasn't expecting the submersible from Life Aquatic, but I wasn't expecting anything like what's shown in the video.

I think this is how you make a link? Like in wiki markup

here's plain text if that link doesn't work.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941

Show threadTubeTalkerXJun 20, 2023
The George Jetson approach.
Show threadVery_Bad_JanetJun 20, 2023

For me the worst part is that there is a father and son aboard. And the son is only 19 years old. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to know that my own son is going to die because of my idea to go on such a risky expedition (even if it was the kid's idea the father should've nixed it).

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/london-tycoon-shahzada-dawood-son-104752797.html

Yahoo is part of the Yahoo family of brands

Show threadFlaimbotJun 21, 2023
Darwin award
Show threadbobJun 20, 2023

There's nothing wrong with using a game controller to steer the thing, I think the issue is more the lack of backup or failsafes.

Also, I'm very much a layperson in this field, but would it have not made sense to tether this thing to a ship on the surface? They could have kept in contact with the surface via the tether and had them reel the thing back in if there were problems with its propulsion or steering.

I saw the video of its interior. As someone who has claustrophobia, it's absolute nightmare fuel. It's a cylinder about 15 feet long and maybe 6 feet wide that you can't even stand up in. It's going to be very unpleasant for 5 people.

Show threadGivesomefucksJun 20, 2023

Also, there's no way to open it from the inside, they're bolted in.

So even if they surfaced, they'll still run out of air if they're not found soon.

Show threadGorkJun 20, 2023
I've used the F710 so that our family can couch co-op in the living room. For a Logitech controller it's pretty solidly built and is of the era where Logitech peripherals were of good quality (unlike now, rip new G503s). I noticed that the wireless range kinda sucked if it didn't have direct LOS to the receiver, but it has good rumble feedback and I like the smooth matte black underside material (feels good to the touch).
Show threadargv_minus_oneJun 20, 2023
Will the resulting scandal be known as OceanGategate?
Show threadgrteJun 21, 2023
I saw a video of this submersible. The view was through a TV. Imagine going to the bottom of the damned ocean to look at the Titanic on a TV.
Show threadBenderFenderJun 21, 2023
Video
This submersible takes passengers to The Titanic wreck. Climb in!

YouTube
Show threadKempethJun 21, 2023

https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-19-us-navy-high-tech-submarine-xbox-controller.html

Granted the evaluated this for periscope controls not steering but still. The leap isn't huge and if you got some backup options that's probably a pretty sensible path to take.

Show threadBucket_of_TruthJun 21, 2023
The x-box controller has a much higher build quality and uses xinput so there is far less likely to be software issues.
Show threadBriongloidJun 21, 2023

I keep seeing this headline and it's a bit misleading to imply that its not a functional way to control that type of vehicle, even the American military has been known to use them.

The purpose for the control method was to have something to have a go when it was safe, they had several on hand in the off chance something happened to it.

These controllers are a product of decades of functional advancements, them being intuitive to use doesn't mean that they are not efficient and functional.