Mastodawn

@realTuckFrumper I mean, yeah. Maybe don’t take pills for something you don’t have, especially with the shortages and all. It’d be great if I didn’t have to worry about whether I can get my meds or not. Instead invest time and money on proper nutrition, better sleep and time management. Heck even with meds I need to do that, because they doesn’t compensate for lack of life skills and self-care. Difference is that with meds I actually can do those things.

The Actual Brian Jun 15, 2023

ADD/ADHD/etc... are very misdiagnosed in the US.

School nurses prescribing meds for minor discipline issues because teachers are overwhelmed and/or poorly trained in classroom management and young brains come to depend on those meds.

Very few people, such as yourself, actually NEED them.

There was the promise of a brain scan that could properly diagnose these conditions, but that would sell less meds, so... 🤷‍♂️

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper It’s indeed often misdiagnosed. That said it’s one of the best studied neurodevelopmental disorders and if the meds work they’re very effective. Denying someone ADHD-meds is like denying a diabetic insulin - nobody blames diabetics that they use insulin. The dependence on the meds is only there because it allows them to function - but it’s not addictive.
That said, school nurses should never prescribe these, let alone to manage kids.

[…]

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper […] There is some truth to how it only becomes pathological when the context makes it so. If you don’t need meds, then you don’t have to take them. The meds have been incredibly helpful and allow me to focus, improves my executive functioning, my emotional regulation and my anxiety. It has made my life way more enjoyable. They don’t work for everybody, but the medication is absolutely not deserving of stigma. That only excludes those who need them even more.

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper Also, as a teacher who works in special ed: yes, many aren’t trained in working with ADHD kids, as it’s usually not covered in training. Meds truly do help for a lot of these kids, though. Class management is one thing, but for the kids themselves it allows them to actually participate. They do need care at that age as they can respond to meds differently. Usually it’s not the meds, but bullying and an often dehumanizing diagnostic process that gets these kids.

The Actual Brian Jun 15, 2023

Yep.

Now, I don't mean to say that the meds are addictive, but when they substitute for learning normal self discipline, a young mind can only focus, study, etc... when taking them, and as we now see, it's not really good for that.

I've heard students talking about all male students in their class being on Ritalin.
Yeah, little boys can be a challenge.
You can't just drug them.

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper It seems that you’ve fallen prey to the most common misconception about ADHD meds as portrayed by popular media and the anti-ADHD crowd. ADHD meds don’t magically make you disciplined, nor do they teach you any life skills. If well-dosed they also don’t turn you into a lifeless automaton.
It allows for the executive functions to work correctly: planning, prioritizing and executing, regulating emotions, impulse control, self-awareness and managing working memory.

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper Only an improper dose or the wrong kind (methylphenidate or dexamphetamine) has the sedating effect you mentioned. Also you're assuming that it's just for classroom management and that these kids aren't suffering from their lack of impulse control. Kids will be kids, but ADHD brains are not equiped to inhibit themselves, no matter how much they want to.

You're also ignoring the entire ADHD-I (ADD) crowd, who already present themselves as "sedated".

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper Also you're only focussing on hyperactive little children, but that's only a small part of ADHD. ADHD is a lack of inhibition due to lack of executive functioning leading to all sorts of uncontrolled behaviors. Kids can be hyperactive, but also stare out the window all the time. Teens might experiment with drinking and drugs more often. Adults may drive too fast and/or drunk, have addictive personalities, have few friends and be depressed from social isolation.

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper As a teacher and ADHD brain: maybe for some teachers it's about classroom management, but I couldn't care less. That's not what ADHD really is about. ADHD people are trapped by their own brain making it incredibly difficult to function. They know very well what it means to be disciplined, what the rules are, and what methods they should employ. But the brain cannot use that knowledge because of dysfunctional dopamine mechanisms, which influence behavior.

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper Also, did you read the study? It's a metastudy that has very little to do with the actual people involved. Worse, it includes practically ancient data from an era where ADHD was very poorly understood, massively skewing the data. It mostly shows that from the 70s onward ADHD has been diagnosed more frequently (duh) and that meds help more for worse cases than for mild cases (duh), and then concludes that it's overdiagnosed.

Meta-analyses be like 🤡

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper Instead I'd highly recommend you read recent books about ADHD and make up your own conclusions instead of quoting a metastudy. That metastudy is also the first of its kind for ADHD, making it highly unreliable (even if you ignore the horrible interpretation of the data). Russell Barkley has a fantastic book on Adult ADHD that is up to date and despite being verbose it's still quite readable. Also just reading papers on Google Scholar should be illuminating.

The Actual Brian Jun 16, 2023

...I did say that was just one.

I didn't quote it.

DryRoastedLemon Jun 16, 2023

@TheActualBrian @realTuckFrumper

Correct, you linked it, but everything you said complies with the study and common misconceptions about what ADHD is and how the meds work.

There's always some truth to things like these. Yes, there are more diagnoses, but that is also to be expected seeing how poorly understood it used to be. Then there are the people who use meds wrong to sedate kids, or students who want more focus (doesn't work) which basically just contaminate the statistics with noise.

The Actual Brian

I said very little.

You're reading WAY too much into not a lot.
That or you're just opposing the last thing I say in an effort to be correct.

I'm sorry, but this seems fruitless.