The potential role of a 3rd servers to mediate between Beehaw and Lemmy.world

https://lemmy.world/post/157903

The potential role of a 3rd servers to mediate between Beehaw and Lemmy.world - Lemmy.world

As this #RedditBlackout accelerates the Fediverse experiment, I feel the urge… the need… to chime in with my 2-cents. My summary of the current lay of the land: Beehaw saw a wave of pornography spam and decided to shut Lemmy.world off and Defederate from this server. I’m too new to this community to fully understand the wants/needs of each individual server, but I’ve been around the internet long enough to recognize that porn-spam is an age-old trolling technique and will occur again in the future. Especially as small, boutique, hobbyist servers pop up and online drama/rivalries increase, online harassment campaigns (like coordinated porn spam attacks) are simply an inevitability. Lemmy.world wants open registrations. Beehaw does not: Beehaw wants users to be verified before posting. This is normal: many old /r/subreddits would simply shadowban all 1-year old accounts and earlier… giving the illusion that everything is well for 5+ or 10+ year old accounts, but cut out on the vast majority of spam accounts with short lives. This works for Reddit where you have a huge number of long-lived accounts, but its still not a perfect technique: you can pay poor people in 3rd world countries to create accounts, post on them for a year, and the these now verified accounts can be paid for by spammers to invade various subreddits. I digress. My main point is that many subreddits, and now Lemmy-instances/communities, want a “trusted user”. Akin to the 1±year-old account on Reddit. Its not a perfect solution by any means, but accounts that have some “weight” to them, that have passed even a crude time-based selection process, are far easier to manage for small moderation teams. We don’t have the benefit of time however, so how do we quickly build trust on the Fediverse? It seems impossible to solve this problem on lemmy.world and Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] alone. At least, not with our current toolset. A 3rd Server appears: ImNotAnAsshole.net [http://ImNotAnAsshole.net] -------------------------- But lets add the 3rd server, which I’ll hypothetically name “ImNotAnAsshole.net [http://ImNotAnAsshole.net]”, or INAA.net [http://INAA.net] for short. INAA.net [http://INAA.net] would be an instance that focuses on building a userbase that follows a large set of different instances recruiting needs. This has the following benefits. 1. Decentralization – Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] is famously only run by 4 administrators on their spare time. They cannot verify hundreds of thousands of new users who appear due to #RedditBlackout. INAA.net [http://INAA.net] would allow another team to focus on the verification problem. 2. Access to both lemmy.world and Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] with one login – As long as INAA.net [http://INAA.net] remains in the good graces of other servers (aka: assuming their user filtering model works), any user who registers on INAA.net [http://INAA.net] will be able to access both lemmy.world and Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] with one login. 3. Custom Moderation tools – INAA.net [http://INAA.net] could add additional features independently of the core github.com/LemmyNet [http://github.com/LemmyNet] programming team and experiment. It is their own instance afterall. Because of #2, users would be encouraged to join INAA.net [http://INAA.net], especially if they want access to Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org]. Lemmy.world can remain how it is, low-moderation / less curated users and communities (which is a more appropriate staging grounds for #RedditBlackout refugees). Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] works with the INAA.net [http://INAA.net] team on the proper rules for INAA.net [http://INAA.net] to federate with Beehaw.org [http://Beehaw.org] and everyone’s happy. Or is it? I am new to the Fediverse and have missed out on Mastodon.social drama. Hopefully older members of this community can chime in with where my logic has gone awry.

So we got defederated? I guess that explains the massive decline of activity here. It’s really not selling the fediverse for me if you can suddenly be cut off from the rest of the world just like that.

You've got it the other way around - Beehaw is defederating themselves from all the major instances, because they can't enforce a safe space like they want to at any kind of scale on this Fediverse model. Lemmy.world is about twice the size of Beehaw in number of users.

https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list

That user is from sh.itjust.works, which is a 2nd server that Beehaw also Defederated from.
Yeah, just saw that. Either way, I completely understand Beehaw's goal but don't understand how they think it's going to work in the long run.

You're correct in the old world / Reddit way of doing things. But I'm not sure if that's how it "should" be done here on Fediverse.

Even on Reddit, the mechanism of just shadowbanning young accounts is cruel. Especially as a "secret rule", it basically cut off Reddit from the younger generation. Its why Reddit tilts to millenials, because we weren't banned yet in 2008 when we made our accounts, while all accounts in 2019+ are basically shadowbanned by default. This obviously can't work either for Reddit and is probably the reason they're in decline.

The fact that we have new solutions available to us here, in the Fediverse, thanks to 3rd party servers and new server instances, is something to be celebrated.

Not sure I agree that it's "cruel" but it is definitely heavy-handed. It's really just a way of enforcing the "lurk more" attitude of old forums at scale.

Telling 20 new accounts each day to read a few posts before making their own gets old fast. It also prevents harassment from day-old troll accounts. It's not perfect but it is a better solution than doing nothing at all.

Accounts were never shadowbanned for year long periods. I remade my accounts multiple times and never had to wait more than a few weeks before being fully active, minus a few niche subs with oddly strict rules.