With the defederation active, how has it affected your subscriptions?

https://beehaw.org/post/572274

With the defederation active, how has it affected your subscriptions? - Beehaw

Now that we’re no longer linked to lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works we can’t subscribe to their communities any more. How affected were your subscriptions? How many of your subs stopped working? My subs were mostly beehaw and lemmy.world so I’m looking for new stuff. :) Do you have some tips for interesteing communities on other instances?

It's worth noting that Kbin is federating now; they've got over 100 pages of communities to scroll through.
Yeah, I've been exploring kbin a bit as well.. I do miss having a dedicated app though
In case I was unclear, you can keep this as your home base, now - you can subscribe to kbin communities from Lemmy as of (I believe) yesterday afternoon.
True but actually using kbin instead gives access to both beehaw and lemmy.world for instance.
It’s pretty cool to have so many options. We can have one account that sees more instances, or several separate accounts that see all those instances, or create our own instance: population 1 that sees all.
That's how I went. Time will tell if it eats storage etc, but so far I'm loving the control I have over who to federate with.
Is there an easy way to search through all the kbin communities at once?
You can go to Kbin, click Magazines, and browse - when you find one you want to sub to, just rightclick -> copy link, and search for it on your instance.
Thanks! That's what I was doing, just wondering if there was some elegant solution I was mising.
Yeah, from Kbin really interesting to view this drama from the outside. We can see posts from both sides right now.
I hope we're able to avoid drama ourselves in the long run. I don't mind at all seeing it from a distance, but it would suck to be a direct part of it.
Run your own instance and it becomes irrelevant.
Honestly, I wish this wasn't necessary. This is the worst thing about federation, in my opinion - inter-instance politics results in one instance admin defederating from another and all of the users of that instance, who may have no knowledge of nor care about the reason for the defederation, have all of their subscriptions disrupted. It'd be nice if it didn't remove already-subscribed communities, and instead just prevented them from showing up to other users under the Communities list / in the 'All' list.
I agree with this statement. Federation will never catch on if normal users have to signup to a new "website" all the time.
I went over to kbin (I already had an account there) and replicated my subscription list as best I could. Splitting my time between here and there. I wish I didn't have to have two separate accounts, though! I didn't want to be fragmented.
I have done the same. I know ultimately that I will just wind up spending more time in one over the other (which remains to be seen).
Same here. Example: I have a question I want to post on AskLemmy. I started to post it from Beehaw, and realized that I'd be cutting off responses from a huge swath of the Fediverse if I did. So I'll be posting it from kbin, instead.
I had an account on beehaw and kbin, but as of the announcement yesterday I've gotten rid of my beehaw account.

I must have missed a memo. Why did beehaw defederate with lemmy.world/sh.itjust.works?

I really want to like Lemmy, but if we can randomly lose access to content like that, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Agreed. If I have to continually join new instances and resubscribe to communities, I will eventually not bother with it.
I'd love if there was a "meta subreddit" option here in the fediverse so I could group together every instance of say !cats and the eventual hundreds of variants on black cats, or orange cats, or illegally smol cats, into a single easy to view link. This way it would be easy to just and new groups of similar discussion into a single continuous channel. Perhaps this may be a thing once more of the apps start to take off and mature, but until then it's definitely a thing I'm missing here.

Details. Basically, there are four people running Beehaw and trying to moderate. Beehaw is not a Reddit replacement, nor is it a troll/free speech friendly place, by design. The intent is for Beehaw to be an open, but curated, instance. That's why there is a sign up process.

Those two instances are both large and open sign up enabled, Lemmy today has extremely weak moderation tools compared to Reddit, there's been a massive influx of traffic and Reddit users, and those two Instances are the place where many trolls are landing.

It's temporary, but today the tools and infrastructure are not in place to maintain both open fed with these Instances and preserve the Beehaw identity.

Thanks for the update and for the link to the reasoning -- I had completely missed it.

Based on the initial post (only mentioning defederation without linking to the Details), it sounded like the three servers had a falling-out of some sort, but this sounds reasonable. I can appreciate the difficulty of trying to maintain a welcoming environment.

From a user perspective, I think I'm mostly frustrated with the lack of visibility with these changes, specifically trying to keep track of what I do and don't have access to. I don't think that's the responsibility of beehaw to implement, but I might continue to look for solutions

While it's not the easiest to sort through, the Instances list at the bottom of the page shows every instance we're federated with and those that are blocked. This will always show what you do and don't have access to through your Beehaw account (or through your account on another instance should you sign up elsewhere). Direct link if it's easier: https://beehaw.org/instances

I hear what you are saying. However, the Fediverse intentionally puts a lot of control into the hands of whoever is running the Instance. I, for one, do believe that the Beehaw Admins want Beehaw to be federated with as many Instances as possible. It’s very clear from their Rules and About posts though, that controlling and curating the atmosphere within this Instance is the #1 priority, and access to content for their own members is a high but secondary priority. They also did not want or ask to be such a huge destination for accounts in the Fediverse. One of the reasons I believe there are so many communities here is because Beehaw is an option for folks who want a safe and controlled platform with a broad range of topics, with discussion that fits a certain community culture that Beehaw espouses. Whether those communities are the largest or most active is not a motivating factor in their creation.

Beehaw admins seem to be placing the health of their own communities and members above the “greater good” of the Fediverse, which is precisely the kind of decision the Fediverse empowers them to make. They even said that, if necessary, they would move to a whitelist model for Federation. So no, the system will not “continue to be overwhelmed,” because the Admins have been very clear that they will take steps as drastic as necessary to maintain the community and culture they are attempting to build. That’s an entirely legitimate use for Fediverse Instances, even if it rubs many people (myself included) the wrong way.

For what it’s worth, I have another account on lemmy.dbzer0 and another much smaller Instance which have much more focused communities and open Federation, which embodies a more typical or expected Fediverse user experience. I plan to stick around Lemmy/KBin for the next year or so and watch all this play out. It’s still very early days and these things will work themselves out.

I'm new here, so i hadn't much time to engage there. One thing i was happy to find was a ADHD community on lemmy.world, it's a bit of a bummer that i can't access it from here. I think it's the largest one. Found another one on kbin though and ADHD memes is really cool.
You can engage with it from here when a new thread comes by but you can't create new threads from here.
I thought so too, but my subscription feed and access from here (https://beehaw.org/c/[email protected]) shows nothing newer than 20h. There's only one younger post, so it might have other reasons why it doesn't show.
I have the feeling things are going to get bigger here on fedi196.gay very soon and its quite possible we'll be taking the meme niche of the fediverse

Tangent:

I'm here through kbin, reading your post from beehaw. Reading "Now that we're no longer linked ..." made me go "We? I can see content from lemmy.world, sh.it, and beehaw just fine."

Not trying to throw shade, just pointing out that even though the post absolutely recognizes the new landscape provided by the fediverse, it's easy to stay in "old world" siloed modes of thinking.

I do not think anyone at Beehaw can see or interact with us in this thread on Kbin, so we may simply be talking into a void together.
that's comforting, in a way
I went to Beehaw to see if this thread of messages was over there, and this thread is indeed visible there (I clicked on "more" then "copy URL to fediverse" to go see)!
I believe that’s the case, yes. So Kbin/Lemmy.world, etc. still receive the content posted on beehaw, however beehaw doesn’t receive the content posted on Kbin/Lemmy.world. I guess this also makes it so that if anyone were to comment on this thread from another instance, we wouldn’t see their comments (unless they’re from beehaw or another instance that beehaw has federation enabled with)

kbin has not been defederated from Beehaw, so interactions between those servers are continuing as normal. There's lots of posts about how "we" are defederated from Beehaw on the kbin front page, but those aren't coming from kbin itself, they're just showing up on the kbin front page because they're popular content in the threadiverse.

We (all of us, not a specific instance) should probably get into the habit of referring to our instances by name instead of just saying "us", "we", etc. because it causes exactly this kind of confusion when we don't.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. There's been so many threads on the defederation, I have gotten confused.

Kbin.social wasn't defederated actually, only those two Lemmy instances

So I tdoesnt effect us (on kbin)

Yeah, it's an odd situation, not something one's used to really. :)
Yeah, it's an odd situation! Takes some time getting used to

I don't think I subbed to anything on those two instances, so I'm not affected at all. I only recently switched to subscribed on the front page too as default so if I missed anything from them, I haven't noticed. Beehaw have grown large and active enough to make up most of my front page at this point.

I think out of all the federated subs I have, the active an interesting ones to me are coming out of programming.dev. I also sub to a few fediverse related ones, one of which actually posted about Beehaw's decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.work. There were some takes that miss the point. There were also those who defended Beehaw's decision too. It was interesting to see the interactions unfold.

Can you tell me how you switched your default to "Subscribed"? I can't find the option.

Sure!

Go into your Settings, then scroll down until you see this section:

I've highlighted the option that you need to change to see your Subscribed communities' posts

Hope that helps!

Don't know why I couldn't see it before lol. Thank you!
Honestly, it's understandable. Personally, I find it poorly labelled and it's wedged in between other options of nearly the same size.

I was subscribed to a lot of pretty niche communities on lemmy.world, so safe to say I'm disappointed in that regard. I'm happy the mods here are trying to make this place safer, but I think it would help to be able to make your own communities at some point.

I'm currently browsing for communities to replace those small ones that I lost hold of.

Would've been nice I'd there'd been some way to block users from those domains to access our stuff but still let us subscribe to theirs somehow.
That's a good idea. Allow communities to choose if they are globally or locally subscribable.

I just started a small instance called wizanons.dev if anyone is interested in joining. We're focused on magic and mysticism, especially psychonautics.

Also super friendly and we've yet to ban any instances since we're still small and haven't to. We run the "magic" community, which is mostly general for anything magical - fantasy or otherwise anyone wants to post about.

WizAnons - US-based Lemmy instance for wizards, witches, warlocks, and all magic users. LGBTQIA+ friendly. All welcome! Mysticism and psychedelics welcome too.

I wish I could fully move to kbin and avoid the federation drama but there’s currently no way to move my post and comment history to a new account. I guess for now I’ll just use kbin to view the communities I can no longer see in Beehaw.
If you really want to move, better sooner than later?