bobadukwhat's the asshole mitigation plan?
PetriI'm wondering the same, I would guess grey listing and shadow banning to be the most effective.
Shadow banning is Orwellian . something you might expect from the CCP instead of a supposedly progressive online forum. If you're going to ban someone at least have the decency to let them know they are banned.
Your right, it is, but there are some folks who want nothing more than to burn down what you built. In the real world those people get physically dealt with, but in the virtual world where there's no means of physically restraining someone, what's your alternative?
PorkrollPosadistAll these American tech firms shadow ban people. The practice is very abusive, but it is also very American.
It's certainly a harsher punishment than normal banning, but I don't see why it would be that different. Assuming you have a user posting something bannable and always sign it with their initials. But whenever they are banned they come back under a different name and continue to do bannable offenses. That is a good reason for shadowbanning imo.
Though any first offense should always be normal-banned imo.
China bad
We'll live, we'll see. Meta is showing its interest in mastodon, so we have a reason to worry. But I think, lemmy will change according to the situation, when situation will be present, not before it.
President_PyrusHow can your comment have minus 1 downvote?
Lmao I was wondering too. Lots of bugs in the system still happening clearly.
It would be nice if everyone were to be excellent to each other but that's just me talking with rose tinted glasses and a belly full of pizza.
Be excellent to each other.
My new motto for the time being.
MiddleWeighHopefully all the assholes are attracted to one shitty instance and then that instance gets defederated.
Srsly tho, the assholes are kind of apart of the whole experience, but I think the people being drawn over here right now are not really the asshole type, at least so far.
higanteThe story of gab in a nutshell.
applejacksLol at creating a new open source platform with free speech and immediately asking how to eliminate it.
In the older, better days of the internet, "assholes" were just a part of it.
Learn to deal
What makes you think this platform has "free speech"? It has a bunch of tools for suppressing or excluding undesirable tools. Most obviously, moderation can be used to remove comments or users from an instance, and federation can be used to remove whole instances from the network.
I value free speech. But not every platform has to support it, and Lemmy explicitly doesn't - unless people just don't just those levers.
Null User ObjectYou can run your own instance or join an instance that tolerates that speech, and federate with other instances that tolerate it. So, the "platform" is not supressing you one bit. Go forth, and be an asshole if you wish.
However, administrators and users on other instances also have the freedom to not be forced to listen to assholes ad nauseum. "Free Speech" does not mean "Free (from the consequences of your) Speech" or that other people should be forced to listen to you.
Yep free speech just means you won't be arrested for it. Still can be held liable for damages and kicked out of places you are disturbing. Inciting violence is a crime too in many countries despite free speech.
There is a big difference between free speech and trolls, spammers, hate groups, bots, harassment, misinformation, etc.
You can say whatever you want just don't be an asshole about it and do it in good faith. Nobody has the right to act like a fool without natural consequences.
People don't have to sit there and put up with it. Imagine if someone walked up to you in real life trolling you. They might have free speech but you don't have to let them follow you around all day with no response.
No, assholes need to learn to behave within the context of the instance / community they are posting to or get downvoted / moderated. Ideally they go away to their own instance where they can be assholes to each other and be defederated.
I feel like we're going to end up with a bunch of de-federation drama. I can't wait for the great de-federation wars.
I'd like to introduce you to #fediblock
I'm glad to see that this perspective is popular on Lemmy. My biggest issue with almost every other Reddit alternative I've seen is that they're full of bigots.
In the older, better days, we used kill files, and our choice of platform was eventually overrun by spam.
Isn't that what 4chan is for?
In the older, better days of the internet assholes would be banned frequently. The problem is that in recent years instead of having a large number of relatively small forums we have a few massive social media sites that effectively control communication over the Internet, and being banned from one of those would be a very big deal.
With the Fediverse, we can go back to the way things were, where banning someone from a given instance isn't a huge deal since people can just make accounts on other instances, but it's still enough of an inconvenience to act as a deterrent. And if they keep being an asshole on their new instance then they'll get banned again until the only instances that'll take them are ones that cater exclusively to assholes, and those can be defederated.
bquintbI'm into using my block button
This is the solution. We cannot shield an open platform, but we can shield ourselved.
ZenMorphThis is the way!
there are multiple ways evil can behave on lemmy:
trolling
- trolling, it is annoying, if 25% of all posts are troll posts, the site can be annoying to use.
- content voting systems can mitigate this tho, but bots will eventually find a way to game this?
- the difference between trolling and spamming (imo): trolls type in their message with a physical keyboard. Spammers use bots to automate trolling
(Bot) Spamming / automated troll farms
- spamming, creates huge load on storage capacity of the server owner, not good if you host for ~~free~~
- spam can be hard to detect in the age of chatgpt LLMs in general, because normal spam would be detected by how random it is. for example
adfjakjdfkl would be easily detected as spam
- spamming huge amounts of text is still better than spammers creating huge amounts of video and photographs
- proof of work algorithms can mitigate this issue somewhat, tho this also makes performance worse for everyone
any other thoughts on proof of work, or how evil doers can behave on social media sides?
I don't have any other suggestions, I just wanted to say that your comment is officially the nicest formatted comment I've seen on Lemmy thus far.
I know it's just standard markdown stuff and it's super common and will become more common on here as userbases build, I just enjoy the new platform mini milestones
I know it is part of the Fediverse, but I wish bots were a thinf or allowed. I know they are not 'assholes' but I just think they take away from having real human connections.
I think we just collectively need to learn how to act better.
Choose not to respond when people are agressively onesided, you won't be changing their minds.
We cannot control assholes or trolls, but we can control our behaviors. Stay kind as long as possible, disengage when you can't. Don't let these idiots turn YOU into an asshole.
There were a lot of very useful bots, and you can’t block bots anyway without blocking APIs, and we can all see how well that goes.
Yeah, I cant see a real argument against bots like that Auto TLDR bot for articles or that summary posting bot for Wikipedia links.
The unit conversion bot is also really useful (almost necessary) for everyone outside the United States.
Wouldn't a browser addon be a better option?
I don't want to get an addon just because people occasionally use Fahrenheit
I don't think I can install browser extensions on Jerboa :P
Alright. I know they csn be use for good. I will just need to learn to like them.
oryxI think some bots are good. I could personally go without seeing the bots that reply to comments when something specific is said, but many subs had helpful bots in them.
I am not into automatic memes. I do enjoy bots with specific callable functionality like looking up the Wiki, IMDB, whatever, or the reverse video bot.
I just don't want to see the "good bot" reply everytime a bot does something.
Exactly, that was so annoying. Or bots coming to correct grammar, or make haikus. They're fun at first and then they're just spam.
Yeah, this is what I mean when I say I want human only interaction. To extend to the future, I never want to have a conversation with ChatGPT or whatever crap comes along. AI can be useful but the way it is used for deception disgusts me to the core.
MyMulliganCorrect me if I'm wrong but the whole 'good bot' thing was to help the bot to improve and moderators to remove bad bots? I'm easily wrong on this but that was my understanding. It helped with the pruning of bad bots and the growth of good ones.
Oh, I had no idea about the culture surrounding bots. I just thought it was a memetic response. Makes sense.
Something I enjoyed is how, during the rise of /r/transcribersofreddit transcribing image content into a comment, because of their standardised formatting, people often assumed they were a bot, so would comment "Good bot".
However, they were human posters, and this was often revealed by another bot that would look out for "good bot"/"bad bot" votes on (seemingly) human posts and say "are you sure [user] is a bot? Because I'm 97.84% sure they're not".
Eventually, it was common to see people replying to the image transcribers' comments with "Good human." and that always made me smile.
I loved a good haiku bot. Some places even had Wikipedia bot. But yes, bot users are not cool on the whole.
Sure, some were welcome and cute, but I just find automated responses to be antithetical to online discussion boards.
Automod has deleted your response, see rule 36.1.16
Individual instances will have to moderate themselves. If they become chaotic, other instances should unmoderate them. But as users, you should also subscribe to communities you think are behaving well and block users/communities that are not.
Also, I have seen some users who are "grabbing" as many communities as possible, namely @[email protected]. Dude is moderating 60 communities, in an instance that started a few days ago.. He is not building the communities, he is just power tripping it seems. @ruud@[email protected], something might have to be done about that in the future. I suggest some sort of "requestcommunity", in which you can apply to become the mod of said community, if community is being badly run (or not run at all).
@ruud - LemmyWorld
Admin of a lot of fediverse servers, among which the .world ones: - lemmy.world - mastodon.world - calckey.world You can find me on these servers as @ruud I receive a lot of messages, direct and mentions. I can’t reply to them all. If you have an issue, please e-mail at [email protected]
There should be a limit on how many communities you can create in a given time span
undefined> There should be a limit on how many communities you can create in a given time span
Yes, I thought of that, but then I am sure they would just create alt accounts to create as many communities as possible. I think the requesting of communities is still the best way. If one wants to be the mod of a community that already has a mod who is moding 50 other communities and is not doing jackshit..
There should be a limit on how many communities you can run, period. This is how we got super-mods like GallowBoob on Reddit
Agreed on both of these. I made four within my first day or so, with three being pretty niche to very niche, and one with the potential to get large if Lemmy continues to grow. After I made that, I called it quits; I made new homes for my favorite Reddit communities and I know that's all I can likely handle if they take off.
And how does that stop them creating multiple accounts to multiply the limit? It doesn't.
MrPoopyButtholeI upvoted this post and I saw a popup "report created" this is not what I intended, I completely agree with this.
I've seen spontaneous "report created" moles¹ as well. It's not clear to me that a report is actually being created; it seems like a UI bug.
guyMole? What's the difference between a mole and a toast?
I'm not sure. I'm not a frontend dev myself; "mole" was the term I heard from people who were.