Simon FrankauJun 10, 2023

I've been watching the conversations around whether or not instances set-up should include a (easily-overridden) default of importing a blocklist for known awful instances.

Those against it pattern match for me with a certain libertarian streak that doesn't want humans making decisions.

In economics, it's the gold standard and free markets. In politics, government is inefficient and should be minimised.

It's the idea that a system with human decision-makers could be undermined...

1/n

Show threadhackbyte Antifa (friendica) 13HB1Jun 11, 2023

@sgf Hrm ..... i think, such a functionality should ultimately be a opt-in ... not a opt-out.

Who will actually be responsible for said list? Which political interests are covered?

It's .... complex..... I like the idea of a bad-list. On the other hand, i don't like calling out ppl in public especially if we can be sure to get a fair amount of streisand effect from that...

Mh. ;)

Show threadSimon FrankauJun 11, 2023

@hackbyte I think there should be a default blocklist because anyone who sets up an instance who doesn't know about moderation and blocklists probably doesn't want to peer with poast.

You can see actual blocklists and who's responsible for them at https://writer.oliphant.social/oliphant/the-oliphant-social-blocklist .

Mastodon already has opinions on what the default acceptable behaviour should be - https://joinmastodon.org/covenant . Extending the recommendation from individuals to instance peering seems pretty reasonable.

Oliphant.Social Mastodon/Fediverse Blocklists

This is a place to find curated server blocklists for your own use. There are links to individual blocklist sources, as well as a custom ...

The Oliphant
Show threadSimon FrankauJun 11, 2023
@hackbyte Put another way, if we're serious about "federation means you can always set up your own instance!", the default safety for non-expert users should be similar between signing up to an existing instance and starting your own. If they'll only recommend instances that meet certain standards to users, it's consistent to recommend new instances block known instances that fall far below those standards. It should be easy to override if you want to.
Show threadSimon Frankau
@hackbyte As to the Streisand effect... if someone looks at the receipts on thebad.place and decides they want to be on that instance... great! All the easier to block them! :)
Jun 11, 2023 at 12:26pmWeb
Show threadSimon FrankauJun 11, 2023
@hackbyte And... maybe I've been a bit glib about the risks of bad server blocks. I've seen the drama around random small instances blocking around misunderstandings etc. The standard for widely-used blocklists should be a lot higher: Consensus across multiple list sources, public accountability, etc. Building a process/standards to meet most practical concerns should be tractable.
Show threadhackbyte Antifa (friendica) 13HB1Jun 11, 2023

@sgf Well ... sadly the standards for distributed lists will always succumb to the basic interests of the people who declare their own to be morally better than whatever they want to block.

And yes, i specially refer to mastodon.social and chaos.social ..... where you actually get a frickin instance block just because you might have a differing opinion to one of their users..

And because these instances have a relatively huge amount of users .... this actually creates problems and enforces recentralisation.

But that's just another completely bonkers aspect of the ongoing mastodontitis.

----

Before you ask. i'm a left leaning german, i dislike what goes on under the "free speech" umbrella, especially if it promotes hateful or even violent behaviour against anyone.

But, you should for example do not _need_ to change your avatar image to a pride flag, just to avoid getting scrutinized.

That's why i'm not for a default opt-out block list.


Make it opt-in for easy access .... ;)

Show threadSimon FrankauJun 11, 2023
@hackbyte I guess that's a pretty concrete reason: If you dislike the blocklist in use by a bunch of major instances, of course you're not going to want to see those blocklists used more widely.