@Nobody @timmy do you know what dictatorship of the proletariat actually means? Nobody wants to enslave you. If you're afraid of the proletariat, maybe it's because you're not a part of it?

@Leroy @timmy

It means taking a group of people who were formerly undistinguished, and giving them total control of every human life.

As soon is the dictators becomes a dictators, they is not longer part of the proletariat. by definition.

They are just the new privileged class.

@Nobody @timmy you frame it as if one person would be the leader. While historically that would make sense when attached to the word dictatorship, the actual phrase "dictatorship of the proletariat" means literally everyone is in charge and everyone has a say. It's the ultimate form of democracy. The people at the bottom are the ones who make all the decisions until everyone is on equitable terms with everyone else and therefore there no longer is a bottom. The eventual goal of Communism is a stateless classless moneyless society AKA anarchism

@Leroy @timmy

And why are 3,000 tyrants one mile away better than 1 tyrant 3,000 miles away?

It is a group of people that wants to control my life. As I am not a conformist, I do not want what most people want. So a system where the majority has the power to abuse the minority any way they want ( e.g. Nazi Germany or the USSR ) is not a good system for me.

But you do you ... I think that Pinochet should have refrained from throwing people out of helicotors, and should have, instead, flown them to Cuba and returned with a planeload of refugees.

Let the communists live the the communist places, the fascists live in the fascist places, and the liberty lovers live in the free places.

There is enough earth for everybody.

Except that every inch of the earth is claimed by some government that will murder you if you try to ignore them.

So we gotta get rid of that, someplace.

@Nobody @timmy anarchism is the ultimate form of freedom, fascism has no place anywhere. These are absolute truths

@Leroy @timmy

I agree about anarchism ... much better than Democracy, because the minority can defend itself from the majority ...

But if there is fascism somewhere on earth, that is fine with me. I want to have someplace to put fascists who tried to impose fascism on my community, and prison is worse than murder.

So let some country be a theocracy, and deport the theocrats there.

Let some other country be fascist, and deport the fascists there.

Let another be communist, and deport the fascists there.

And let still another be anarchy, and deport the anarchists there.

@Nobody @timmy no, fascists don't have a place on earth. Giving them that space just allows them to organize and spread their hate and violence. Fascists need to be shot dead where they stand. No exceptions

And again, the ultimate goal of Communism is anarchism

@Leroy @timmy

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.

In practice there generally is.

Fascism and Communism are pretty much indistinguishable in practice.

@Nobody @timmy for the 50th time in this thread you've proven you have no idea what you're talking about. I bet you think the Nazis were socialists just because they put the word socialism in the name of their party

@Leroy @timmy

I think they are socialists because there are two options: free markets, and socialism ... socialism being defined as a system where command and control is the organizing principle of socieety.

In a free market, the government would not have the power to tell companies that they could not hire Jews. In a socialist "market" they would.

Ownership is defined as "the right to exclude others".

if the government can exclude you from your property, but you cannot exclude them from it, they own "your property", and you do not.

@Nobody @timmy you've absolutely proven that you don't understand the meanings of a single word you just said. The Nazis are not socialists. The Nazis are fascists. Learn what fascism actually means, and then look at their policy decisions. They called themselves socialists before they made it into power because a war-torn post WWI Germany was extremely sympathetic towards socialist policy

@Leroy @timmy

All totalitarians are socialists.

A totalitarian government controls everything.

A socialist government controls the economy.

You cannot control everything without controlling the economy.

Q.E.D.

@Nobody @timmy you're just saying words again still without any regard or knowledge of what they actually mean.

@Leroy @timmy

I am giving you definitions.

You speak leftist, I speak Libertarian. Others speak rightest.

I am relatively fluent in leftist, having grown up a hippy and followed the Dead for many years.

But the modern authoritarian leftists are not the same. They are in love with war and killing.

@Nobody @timmy hippies are liberals, not leftists.

@Leroy @timmy

There are many flavors of hippies. There are those who want the government to do everything, and there are those who just want the government to get out of the way so they can live their way.

I am the latter sort, if you did not guess.

@Nobody @timmy so what you're saying is you're a liberal, which is a right wing ideology mind you. Literally a half step away from being the Nazi you claim not to be

@Leroy @timmy

I am not a liberal, I am an anarchist.

Not the same thing.

I am close to what a was once called a liberal, but more consistent.

@Nobody @timmy you're not an anarchist. I'm an anarchist. You are definitely not one of us

@Leroy @timmy

You are probably an Anarcho-Communist, or a Anarcho-Syndacalist.

I could do Anarcho-Syndacalism ( under certain conditions, e.g., anybody can start their own syndicates and compete with the existing ones ) but not communist.

The thing about anarchy is, not everybody is going to anarchy the same way. That's the breuty of it.

I am a Motley Anarchist, or an Anarchist without Adjectives.

Which more or less means I am content to do me, and let you do you.

@Nobody @timmy you're not any type of anarchist, but if you somehow were you'd be an ancap, and we don't claim those. They don't make anarchy any better, they just make capitalism worse

@Leroy @timmy

I used to be an ancap. Then I realized that it was an incomplete solution. Because it implies that everybody everywhere would do things our way.

But that cannot happen without massive violence.

So I am now a Motley Anarchist.

You can do it your way where you are, and I'll do it my way where I am, and I'll be way too busy to try to control you.

So I'll leave you and yours alone, so long as you leave me and mine alone.

@Nobody @timmy if you were even an ancap there's no way you could ever be a real anarchist. You also self identified as a libertarian, which is not the same thing

@Leroy @timmy

My goals in life do not include being a "real anarchist" by your definition, any more than your goals are likely dominated by a desire to be a "real anarchist" by my definition.

@Leroy @timmy

That is wrong in at least two ways.

First, I don't want states at all.

Second, unless you call "anarchist" an ethnicity, the jurisdiction which I would choose would not be any sort of an ethnostate. I don't give a fuck about your skin color. I want to live around people who are willing to let me live my life in my own way.

I'm delighted to have those who want such things fuck off and find one, though. That way I don't have to deal with them, or even trouble myself to fight with them.

@Nobody @timmy allowing people who want to create ethnostates the freedom to do so is effectively the same thing as creating one yourself. The only place where fascists and Nazis belong is hell, and they deserve to be sent there painfully

@Leroy @timmy

So submit to your judgement or be murdered.

If you want my life, come and take it, if you can.

But don't expect me to go softly into that black night.

And don't expect to find me unarmed or helpless.

@Nobody @timmy look up the tolerance paradox, learn it, and commit to operating by it. I refuse to allow Nazis the right to the air the good people of the world breathe. If that makes me a bad person, so be it, I do not care. I didn't lose family in the Holocaust for you to make up your own meanings for political terms and pretend I'm the bad guy for trying to explain the gaping holes in your ideology to you. And if you fall into the category of people who enable Nazis, you'll be dealt with eventually. Someone somewhere will hear you say some hateful bullshit and deliver the punch that finally puts you out, and the rest of us will be laughing

@Leroy @timmy

The paradox of tolerance is predicated on the idea that when good ideas go up against bad ideas, bad ideas will always win.

This is bullshit.

So the paradox is bullshit.

@Nobody @timmy bad ideas are clearly winning because being a Nazi is bad and yet here you are

@Leroy @timmy

As you pointed out, shit for brains, Nazis are not big on free speech.

I am.

Thereofre, not a Nazi.

But lie, that's what commies do best.

@Nobody @timmy Again, Nazis love free speech, but only for Nazis. You like your right to free speech, but you don't seem to like anyone else's, and you don't seem to like the idea that shit you say can still have consequences even if you're free to say it

@Leroy @timmy

I love freee speech for eveybody.

Even those I disagree with.

Even monsters like you who are willing to murder the whole world to get their way.

@Nobody @timmy you don't like free speech because you don't even know what it is. Freedom of speech is the right to not be censored by the government for the things you say. What freedom of speech is NOT is the freedom to be a racist shit bag and then pretend nobody is allowed to kick your ass for being a racist shitbag

@Leroy @timmy

The only use of violence that does not violate the rights of others is in answer to violence.

@Nobody @timmy and racism isn't somehow isn't violence to you? Condemning poor people to starve on the streets while others enjoy excess they couldn't spend in 1000 lifetimes isn't violence to you? Destroying our planet's climate and spreading imperialist harm to other countries isn't violence to you? No of course not, it's only violence when someone tells you that you're dumb and wrong

@Leroy @timmy

Having an opinion is not violence.

Stating your opinion is not violence.

Violence, on the other hand, is violence.

Poor people starve because the government starves them.

@Nobody @timmy being a racist is violence. Being a Nazi is violence. Systemic harm is violence, and wishing systemic harm on specific groups of people is violence. You are a much more violent person than I could ever hope to be

@Leroy @timmy

Opinions are not violence.

If advocating bad systems was violence, I would be throwing commie fucks out of helicopters.

But it's not, so I don't.

@Nobody @timmy advocating for a system that requires racist violence to function is violence. You're advocating for capitalism, which in terms of racist violence is literally only second to fascism, which just so happens to be the logical conclusion of capitalist thought

@Leroy @timmy

Much more violence has been done in the name of communism than ever was done in the name of freedom.

I realize that your bullshit charracterature of capitalism is a bad system, but that does not make freedom bad, it just makes you a shittty economist.

@Nobody @timmy the American Revolutionary and Civil wars would like to have a word with your absolutely non-existent knowledge of history