@Nobody @timmy for the 50th time in this thread you've proven you have no idea what you're talking about. I bet you think the Nazis were socialists just because they put the word socialism in the name of their party

@Leroy @timmy

I think they are socialists because there are two options: free markets, and socialism ... socialism being defined as a system where command and control is the organizing principle of socieety.

In a free market, the government would not have the power to tell companies that they could not hire Jews. In a socialist "market" they would.

Ownership is defined as "the right to exclude others".

if the government can exclude you from your property, but you cannot exclude them from it, they own "your property", and you do not.

@Nobody @timmy you've absolutely proven that you don't understand the meanings of a single word you just said. The Nazis are not socialists. The Nazis are fascists. Learn what fascism actually means, and then look at their policy decisions. They called themselves socialists before they made it into power because a war-torn post WWI Germany was extremely sympathetic towards socialist policy

@Leroy @timmy

All totalitarians are socialists.

A totalitarian government controls everything.

A socialist government controls the economy.

You cannot control everything without controlling the economy.

Q.E.D.

@Nobody @timmy you're just saying words again still without any regard or knowledge of what they actually mean.

@Leroy @timmy

I am giving you definitions.

You speak leftist, I speak Libertarian. Others speak rightest.

I am relatively fluent in leftist, having grown up a hippy and followed the Dead for many years.

But the modern authoritarian leftists are not the same. They are in love with war and killing.

@Nobody @timmy hippies are liberals, not leftists.

@Leroy @timmy

There are many flavors of hippies. There are those who want the government to do everything, and there are those who just want the government to get out of the way so they can live their way.

I am the latter sort, if you did not guess.

@Nobody @timmy so what you're saying is you're a liberal, which is a right wing ideology mind you. Literally a half step away from being the Nazi you claim not to be

@Leroy @timmy

I am not a liberal, I am an anarchist.

Not the same thing.

I am close to what a was once called a liberal, but more consistent.

@Nobody @timmy you're not an anarchist. I'm an anarchist. You are definitely not one of us

@Leroy @timmy

You are probably an Anarcho-Communist, or a Anarcho-Syndacalist.

I could do Anarcho-Syndacalism ( under certain conditions, e.g., anybody can start their own syndicates and compete with the existing ones ) but not communist.

The thing about anarchy is, not everybody is going to anarchy the same way. That's the breuty of it.

I am a Motley Anarchist, or an Anarchist without Adjectives.

Which more or less means I am content to do me, and let you do you.

@Nobody @timmy you're not any type of anarchist, but if you somehow were you'd be an ancap, and we don't claim those. They don't make anarchy any better, they just make capitalism worse

@Leroy @timmy

I used to be an ancap. Then I realized that it was an incomplete solution. Because it implies that everybody everywhere would do things our way.

But that cannot happen without massive violence.

So I am now a Motley Anarchist.

You can do it your way where you are, and I'll do it my way where I am, and I'll be way too busy to try to control you.

So I'll leave you and yours alone, so long as you leave me and mine alone.

@Nobody @timmy if you were even an ancap there's no way you could ever be a real anarchist. You also self identified as a libertarian, which is not the same thing

@Leroy @timmy

My goals in life do not include being a "real anarchist" by your definition, any more than your goals are likely dominated by a desire to be a "real anarchist" by my definition.

@Leroy @timmy

That is wrong in at least two ways.

First, I don't want states at all.

Second, unless you call "anarchist" an ethnicity, the jurisdiction which I would choose would not be any sort of an ethnostate. I don't give a fuck about your skin color. I want to live around people who are willing to let me live my life in my own way.

I'm delighted to have those who want such things fuck off and find one, though. That way I don't have to deal with them, or even trouble myself to fight with them.

@Nobody @timmy allowing people who want to create ethnostates the freedom to do so is effectively the same thing as creating one yourself. The only place where fascists and Nazis belong is hell, and they deserve to be sent there painfully

@Leroy @timmy

So submit to your judgement or be murdered.

If you want my life, come and take it, if you can.

But don't expect me to go softly into that black night.

And don't expect to find me unarmed or helpless.

@Nobody @Leroy this is like the 3rd time in this thread that you’ve offered that others ought to come try to kill you. Do you fantasize about shooting people who come to your house a lot? Or is your rugged individualism somehow bulletproof
@timmy @Nobody the libertarian dream is to die in combat defending their shitty ideals

@Leroy @timmy

Whereas the commie dream is to murder every dissenter until mankind is one undifferentiated mass of sheep incapible of thinking for themselves in "defense" of their shitty and tyrannical views.

@Nobody @timmy no the communist dream is anarchism. Real anarchism. Stateless classless moneyless society. As I explained to you before. But you should know that considering you called yourself an anarchist even though you're clearly not one

@Leroy @timmy

Some of us think money is a good idea. Especially real money, like gold or crypto.

We would just be murdered, since you have to control every single human, right?

@Nobody @timmy crypto is the exact opposite of real money. Gold is the only thing we have that counts as "real currency" and we don't want that either. Currency isn't necessary in a society that takes care of all of its people

@Leroy @timmy

As for crypto, it is a wonderful thing, especially because it may save the world from the endless warfare imposed by the bankers.

But eventually, crypto will probably exist as claim checks against resources.

Crypto in it's current state is great only because the alternative is the government printing out as much money as they want, impoverishing most of society.

But it will improve over time.

@Nobody @timmy useless data whose only purpose is to create more useless data isn't a good thing. Crypto won't stop shit, and all it does is ruin the environment with the amount of physical resources required to host it.

@Leroy @timmy

If you find the data useless, ignore it.

I find it useful, so I will not.

@Nobody @timmy I will not ignore it, it's destroying our environment. It has to go

@Leroy @timmy

How many people are you willing to murder to get your way?

@Nobody @timmy the absolute minimum number possible, but still as many as it takes

@Leroy @timmy

So you will murder me if I live my life my way.

Find.

Come and get me.

I am at 3525 Green Road in Ann Arbor michigan.

Kill me if you can.

@Nobody @timmy no, but I'll definitely kick your ass if the way you choose to live your life is harmful to the people I care about. You didn't need to dox yourself, but since you chose to I hope you have fun receiving socialist newsletters sent to your door until you move or die, whichever comes first

@Leroy @timmy

Bring it, bitch

@Nobody @timmy you really just cannot wait to get into a shoot out with people who really don't care whether you exist or not, huh

@Leroy @timmy

You are the one who said you would cheerfully murder me for using crytocurrency.

Murdering tyrants should die trying.

@Nobody @timmy tell me where I said that

@Leroy @timmy

Your latest death threat was here:

@Nobody @timmy so even your screenshot proves I never said the thing you're accusing me of. Dude, if you wanna live with your head up your ass for the rest of your life that's fine, just don't use it as an excuse to make other people's lives worse

@Leroy @timmy

You said you would murder as many people as required to force everyone to live by your values.

Stop lying, or you are blocked.

Own your inner psychopath.

You will murder any dissenter so you can force your will on others.

You want to be the master, while all others are slaves, and you are willing to engage in mass murder to get it.

Own it, or abandon it, but don't lie.

@Nobody @timmy no, I want to get rid of masters all together. You just don't want to have a master for yourself, you don't care if other people have them. You're not in the line of fire unless you have way more money than we think you do or if you're a Nazi. If neither of those things are true you have nothing to worry about. On the other hand...

@Leroy @timmy

You cannot "get rid of masters" while forcing the whole world to live by your values.

Pick one.

@Nobody @Leroy do you really think the people in power just roll over if you say “leave me alone” the right way?

@timmy @Leroy

You have to say it the right way.

All political power flows form thee barrel of a gun.

@Nobody @timmy look at you fantasizing about murder again, what a hypocrite
@Nobody @Leroy and you endorsed currency as a means to operate an economy, but where does your currency get value non-violently?

@timmy @Leroy

Value is not a property of a thing.

Value is more properly regarded as a verb.

I value crypto currency because it is an escape from a system that has a government thumb on every scale.

@Nobody @timmy value is absolutely a property of a currency under a system that demands the use of currency. If all money has no inherent value then why do we use it?

@Leroy @timmy

I don't demand anything.

If you don't want to use currency, you can trade sides of beef, or artwork, or whatever makes you happy.

Or you can live off gifts, if you want to live off gifts.

But don't try to force me to live your way. Because I won't do what you tell me.

@Nobody @timmy capitalism requires currency to function. That's how you pay people for stuff. If currency has no value then the entire capitalist system is inherently flawed

@Leroy @timmy

So don't be capitalist. I don't see it your way, and I won't live your way, but you do you.

@Nobody @timmy you're not answering the question. If currency has no inherent value, then what's the point of keeping it around?

@Leroy @timmy

Nothing has inherent value.

Value is subjective.

Nothing has value until somebody values it.

An addict thinks their drug is the most valuable thing on earth.

@Nobody @timmy no, an addict doesn't inherently find value in drugs, they have an addiction. That's not the same thing. If the only value we can ascribe to currency is that it's currency, then it's useless and needs to go

@Leroy @timmy

You value what you value.

And you regarding something as useless means you should eliminate it from YOUR life.

I disagree, so you have no right to eliminate it from mine.

You do you.

@Nobody @timmy so what do you value about currency then? Not crypto, currency in general. What actual value does currency have to you other than just being currency?

@Leroy @timmy

Currency is a commodity that most people value, which can be used as a tool to solve the "double coincidence of wants" problem that exists in a barter society.

You would have to understand economics to absorb much more detail than that.

@Nobody @Leroy why do most people value a currency mr. economics understander?

@timmy @Leroy

Because they can buy things with it.

As Adam Smith wrote, it is not for money, but for their money's worth, that people work for.

@Nobody @timmy you didn't answer the question. Why do YOU value currency, other than simply for the fact that it's currency? Economics is just the pseudoscience of capitalism trying to justify itself and unfortunately I have a pretty decent understanding of it. I don't care about the value of currency to capitalism, I care about the value it has TO YOU (which you would have told me already if there was any)

@Leroy @timmy

I value currency because I can buy things with it.

@Nobody @Leroy see, this is what I was getting at a while ago, your currency's value grows out of the barrel of a gun just like all other power. Something I learned from you just upthread

@timmy @Leroy

The value of the dollar flows from the barrel of the gun, because having dollars is essential to paying taxes, and the government will murder or enslave you if you don't submit to their extortion.

@Nobody @timmy CAPITALISM and FASCISM do actively and violently force you to submit to their extortion. That's not what socialism communism, or anarchism are about. YOU just want to be the guy on top, the thing you've accused me of this whole time

@Leroy @timmy

Taxation does.

But capitalism, rightly understood, would have no taxation.

If you wanted to hire security, you would pay the people you wanted to pay.

@Nobody @Leroy I will accept that, but you stated that currency is necessary to your market economy, so under your definition of freedom it isn't such a free market, is it?
@Nobody @timmy that falls into the "it's currency" department. You're literally just describing what we use it for, not why it has actual value. If we didn't need to buy things and had equitable access to our wants and needs, then currency would have no value.

@Leroy @timmy

If you think so, that's fine.

I'll live my way, you live yours.

@Nobody @timmy "your way" is capitalism, and capitalism hurts everyone it touches

@Leroy @timmy

Says the guy who wants to force the system which starved millions to death on everybody.

You live your way, I'll live mine.

Or you can try to force your will on me, and you can die trying.

Your call.

@Leroy @timmy

And things are essential to human survival.

@Nobody @timmy the whole world doesn't have to live by MY values, they just have to live by values that aren't racist, sexist, homophobic, etc etc etc. I think it's pretty easy to do that. Most people think it's pretty easy to do that. If you're not one of "most people" then just say so

@Leroy @timmy

And no, if other people want to submit to some commie, I dont' care.

It's not my problem.

I'm not going to murder you to prevent you from being stupid. I'm just going to tell you you are stupid, and let you live your life your way, unless and until you come for me.

@Nobody @timmy it seems the only one with a murder fantasy here is you. I'm not opposed to violence when it's necessary, but you seem to have a genuine boner for it

@Leroy @timmy

I have never said that I would come and find you and murder you if you lived by your values.

I only said that I would defend myself if you tried to enslave and murder me.

Which you have been consistently asserting your right to do.

Fuck around and find out.

@Nobody @timmy nobody is asserting their right to enslave you, nobody has the right to enslave anyone. Bodily autonomy is a human right. And besides, do you really think I want Nazis doing work that I could do 100x better myself?

@Leroy @timmy

Yes, you are asserting your right to force me to live by your values, and control every aspect of my life.

That's called slavery, slaver.

@Nobody @timmy no, I'm asserting my right to kick your ass if you're a racist.

@Leroy @timmy

And if I use crypto-currency.

And if I don't submit to communism.

And if I hold any other opinion you disagree with.

So yeah, you want to control every aspect of every human life.

@Nobody @timmy I disagree with racism. If you don't disagree with racism, you're a racist. Punching racists is objectively a good thing.

So are you against racism or do you need to get punched?