Cian O’Donnell
Hard to find the research path between:
- what you really want to to do because you believe it’s important
- what you think will get funded
- what you think will result in impactful papers
- what you think will attract good students and postdocs
- what you would love to do out of sheer fun and curiousity
May 21, 2023 at 12:39pmWeb
Show threadCian O’DonnellMay 21, 2023
I’m a scientist, so I think I will always find some interesting aspects in any project. But still have this feeling that I haven’t yet said what I want to say… feel like there is an important science advance in me if only I can get all the above stars to align. How to get there?
Show threadDan GoodmanMay 21, 2023
@cian I often have the same feeling, and to be honest I'm angry at the culture of science that it doesn't make it possible to pursue this. Publish or perish, commercial journals, adversarial peer review, competitive grant funding, etc. all suck creative energy and joy out of science, and stop people from doing the things they care most about which is surely the things they would do best and lead to the best results.
Show threadDan GoodmanMay 21, 2023
@cian and I'm angry at a personal level too. I feel like I spent what should have been my most creative and productive years trying to work out (unsuccessfully) what the intersection was between things I'm interested in and things that could get funded and published in "good" journals. Trying to remedy that mistake now but... 🤷‍♂️
Show threadCian O’DonnellMay 21, 2023
@neuralreckoning it’s a mind melt!
Show threadAlbert CardonaMay 22, 2023

@cian @neuralreckoning

Every time I say anything about this, somebody throws back at me that I "speak from a position of privilege", so let's put that out front.

My approach to research has also included relentlessly pushing back on bullshit. Want me to fill this form? Please send it back to me filled with all the data you already have. Want me to submit paper trail of this or that activity? Show me first what information you already hold, then I'll add. Can I delegate this to an admin? Delegated it is. Doing all this, kindly, takes skill that one develops after many blunders. Blessed be the grace with which many administrators have educated me on how to communicate with them.

The reason I did the above: to free time.

In my first lab (Institute of Neuroinformatics in Zurich, 2008-11) there was barely any bureaucratic overhead at all. The institute secretaries and general manager were very effective at handling outside paperwork and reduced the internal one to pretty much none.

In my second lab (HHMI Janelia, 2012-19) there was a lab coordinator–a mix between personal assistant, lab manager, travel agent, and liason jack of all trades, often with PhDs or MPhils in science–that handled 4 to 5 groups with up to 6 people each. The best setup I have ever seen, and also the most cost effective: no need to cross-validate most requests (far less work!) because the persona of the lab coordinator is a member of the administrative team to begin with, not a lab member.

In my third lab (MRC LMB and University of Cambridge, 2019–to date), we hired an admin assistant in the lab to hold the onslaught of paperwork requests. This is the first time I feel I have any privilege, and it's only thanks to grants.

Show threadAlbert CardonaMay 22, 2023

@cian @neuralreckoning

And once you have time for research, the questions of what to work on, what grants to write, and where to publish, become your own. One can actually afford to think about them, to try and to fail, to redress and therefore to succeed.

My first publications where not in glamour journals (not for PhD, not for postdoc) but I had the time to visit research institutes that then saw value in what I was doing and how, and hired me ahead of any publication, lifting the pressure to publish and freeing me to publish wherever. This happened in Zurich and at Janelia too.

My first glamour publications only came when I was already a lab head at Janelia. First the two 2012 Nature Methods papers, from prior work; then papers in Nature and one in Cell, and only because collaborators insisted; to me, for my career and within a 5-year horizon, it didn't matter at all where the work would get published.

To my naive self, a surprise arrived when joining the UK, where suddenly glamour journals mattered. They didn't for most of my career (2000 to 2019). The REF, promotions, and some grant bodies here appear to be deeply entrenched in the notion that publishing in glamour journals matters. I have since joined my Department's publishing committee and whatever committee work I am doing is towards upturning this monumental and destructive short-sightedness.

My move to join eLife first as BRE and now as Senior Editor is in exactly this vein: if I am to do any community work, let it be in a system that promotes work by itself, not books by their covers, and assists in particular junior scientists in breaking free of this ridiculous shackles.

#academia #ScientificPublishing

Show threadPeter MolemanMay 23, 2023
@cian @neuralreckoning @albertcardona
Which human community should believe there is an important science advance in you? It is your believe. Please, do not let it go! But it is up to you to find the path to realize it, if necessary outside of the beaten tracks of research paths. I agree with the criticisms concerning the culture of science. But don't be angry, because that hurts you and nobody else. (By the way: I have been there and solved the problem for myself long ago).
Show threadCian O’DonnellMay 23, 2023
@MolemanPeter @neuralreckoning @albertcardona thanks for the advice. I don’t feel angry at all, am happy with career so far and current job. But also feel constantly pulled in multiple directions and like I have a research itch to scratch that I can’t quite reach… or find!
Show threadPeter MolemanMay 23, 2023
@cian @neuralreckoning @albertcardona Neuralreckoning said he is angry.... I hope to see the most beautiful results from your scratchings..... Let us know here of these results!
Show threadBruno LevyMay 21, 2023
@cian I think it is not hard, just do what interests you most, regardless all the other aspects. Doing so, of course you will find something interesting, publish articles and attract good students to work with you, but all these are *consequences*, not a *goal*...
... but you will need to make *choices* and say no to additional projects / additional students / additional funding to stay *focused* !
Show threadCian O’DonnellMay 21, 2023
@BrunoLevy01 good advice thanks. Think I have spread myself too thin by saying yes too often!
Show threadbkMay 21, 2023
@cian Also:
- where the data are leading you…
Show threadIan SudberyMay 21, 2023
@cian one of the biggest changes in my career was also being realistic about what I was good at. Turned out that the skills needed to answer the questions I must card about where not the ones I was good at.
Show threadCian O’DonnellMay 22, 2023
@IanSudbery that’s a very astute and honest thing to have done. But how do you know where to draw the line? Eg I’m never gonna be a mathematician so I’m not going to bother trying to prove theorems about an algorithm. But otoh I feel like I can make progress on pushing forward new analysis methods. Sometimes good things happen when you work out of your comfort zone
Show threadIan SudberyMay 22, 2023
@cian IDK. Its difficult. For me it was quite a big thing - giving up doing theory based small scale wet lab experiement for statistics based bioinformatics and data science. I still occastionally try to poke my nose into those things, but I've always got a stable base of stuff I know i'm comfortable with.