Radical Graffiti“Women didn’t get the right to vote ...by voting.”
Sticker spotted in Paris
Sticker spotted in Paris
JohannWaldvogel@RadicalGraffiti ...actually they did in Switzerland. Later than in other countries.
phatt@JohannWaldvogel @RadicalGraffiti well, actually ;)
it took 3 attempts to convince the men to give voting powers to women, and it succeeded half a century later than most other countries.
"just wait until we can shame the ruling class to give us voting (let alone equal) rights" only is a good strategy if you have time, lots of time, and the rest of the world has already accepted your stance as de-facto standard.
@phatt @RadicalGraffiti You forgot to mention a breach of constitution in Appenzell by the federal court to overrule the cantonal popular vote. But yeah, that's the downside of real democracy: It takes longer than to simply create some elite consensus. On the other hand, sometimes elites and/or revolutionaries are wrong. And not all revolutions end in a better state than they departed. And masses may even be persuaded or hysterically overreacting as well ... argh, dammit, it's always humans.
@JohannWaldvogel @RadicalGraffiti I'm sure those were not the only shenanigans, but yes, it's even worse than just the three attempts of voting.
I agree that majority vote can be a good way to slow down change in some cases, but that requires the status quo being fair. expanding civil rights to a group should always default to yes independent of what a majority of people think, especially if the excluded group has no say in the matter (currently e.g. non-cititzens).
@phatt @RadicalGraffiti The definition of fairness is part of the overton window and may change. As civil rights (voting, social security, ...) usually are linked to civil duties (e.g. military service, taxes, ...) and imply some (usually longerm-) stake in the community/group, I do not tend favoring to auto-enable only the rights part to everybody and leave some subgroup to hold the rest of the bag. Admittedly, the more hands-on it gets, the fuzzier and harder, incl. immigration laws...
@JohannWaldvogel @RadicalGraffiti idk, many of these hurdles seem arbitrary, military service isn't done by everyone, but taxes are paid by all (except maybe at the very top). stake in community grows also when you get to participate as equals, so that goes both ways.
Dangling rights in front of people by demanding duties seems backwards. it's not like I ever would have passed those hurdles.
rights are the properties of humans, fulfilling duties varies by different abilities.
@phatt @RadicalGraffiti Basic human rights are usually given to all humans, but for political participation there are also some (not-so-)arbitrary hurdles similar as for duties: Mentally ill, underage or convicted persons usually do not have full civil (/voting) rights.
Nation states are a bit like clubs in the way that just asking to get things will not work: You need also some investment from the inviduals beyond revolutionary outrage, petitions and demands to choose about things.