Patrick McLaughlinYes, yes, the Dems are inadequate.
But they’re not aggressively and maliciously monstrous.
And no, a third party has no chance of winning at this time and place.
And *monstrous* is the price of trying.
This isn’t complex, FFS.
➡ @McPatrick @StillIRise1963
I disagree with the people who are doing no vote out of spite. I'll vote for Biden, fine. but I'm confused by people saying this will fight fascism. Is Biden currently doing much to fight state-level fascism? What's the actual plan because it seems like all he'll be good for is vetoing them (still good, still important). Some of the Biden fans don't seem to want to talk about that question.
I disagree with the people who are doing no vote out of spite. I'll vote for Biden, fine. but I'm confused by people saying this will fight fascism. Is Biden currently doing much to fight state-level fascism? What's the actual plan because it seems like all he'll be good for is vetoing them (still good, still important). Some of the Biden fans don't seem to want to talk about that question.
Heather@McPatrick @StillIRise1963
In the US, if you want to apply pressure from the left, you run as or vote for a Democrat. Because we build our coalitions in advance. In multi-party systems, you don't always know who your elected representative will have to work with to establish a voting majority. It can get weird. FPTP has a lot of flaws, but at least it simplifies coalition building.
In the US, if you want to apply pressure from the left, you run as or vote for a Democrat. Because we build our coalitions in advance. In multi-party systems, you don't always know who your elected representative will have to work with to establish a voting majority. It can get weird. FPTP has a lot of flaws, but at least it simplifies coalition building.
ALL electoral democracy systems have serious-to-severe dysfunctionality. It’s not the democracy side, it’s the dynamics and realities of election systems.
william.maggos
Jo - pièce de résistance@McPatrick @Heather
Check out this thread on my pinned posts on sortition and some of my ideas on it. https://mastodon.social/@JoBlakely/110531598480099232
Check out this thread on my pinned posts on sortition and some of my ideas on it. https://mastodon.social/@JoBlakely/110531598480099232
Espinada@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 the only way a third party candidate would win is if he/she were to be overwhelmingly liked by the great majority of the people in the country. (It’ll also be someone you have to be very cautious about.)
@zuzuruz
Two plausible paths:
1. Dems fracture. GOP wins all the marbles, we get full Florida-grade Fascism for 1-3 generations, at least.
2. GOP fractures. The saner bit flirts with the corporatist/moderate Dems, and an actual left-of center party spins off of this firmly right-of-centered Democratic Party.
The latter path requires waiting, and denying the Fascists success. And entrenching what good can be before the centrists sell out.
Grassroots Joe@zuzuruz @McPatrick @StillIRise1963
Never say never, but even with a seemingly popular candidate of such magnitude, they are still likely to be buried by Party loyalty driven home by the ground game machinery of the major Parties (never mind months of attack ads).
Certainly in 2024 there is a near zero chance of a 3rd Party win in any state let alone nationally.
@joeinwynnewood @zuzuruz @StillIRise1963
Every effort I’ve seen has been quixotic (at best). Intent on “saving” us right now, winning the presidency — and then **magic**.
A serious effort will be a national coalition trying to elect people to local offices. And having done so, achieving successes to point to and politicians with a record, to move up the ladder over multiple elections.
But we want a quick fix. And it’s not there.
@joeinwynnewood @zuzuruz @StillIRise1963
And to be clear, this isn’t just opinion, but experience.
I helped get the Green Party on the ballot in CA. And… <crickets> — they decided to try for top level positions and are irrelevant. (There are other problems in how the party’s structured, but that’s another subject.)
And I helped (less, but…) the Reform Party get up and running — before it was boarded and borged.
New parties need to be grassroots, bottom up.
Not in our time...
@McPatrick @zuzuruz @StillIRise1963
I think the Working Families Party is doing it right. Nothing but local/regional, partnering with like-minded progressive Democrats, never undercutting allies, even tepid allies, in a general election.
That's the only way to do it. The others are for all intents and purposes vanity projects to be scorned.
Reach for the Stars 
@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 The Democrats don’t have to be inadequate. There is a primary. There could be a candidate beside Biden in that primary. Maybe someone younger and more progressive.
Instead of conceding the future, we could perhaps work to make it better.
@antares @StillIRise1963
In a very theoretical sense, yes.
In a realistic one, rooted in history, no.
(And I say this as someone who wasn’t a Biden supporter until he won.)
A real primary—where the sitting President’s position is contested from within the party—has almost *always* resulted in a loss to the other party. Regardless of which party.
A natural feature of how electoral politics and human psychology works.
So (bitterly) no.
Raise hell, make demands, push him in other ways, yes.
@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 Given my recent track record with elected officials, I fully expect Biden to get shingles in early October and lose because he is too ill to campaign.
@antares @McPatrick @StillIRise1963
https://mstdn.social/@joeinwynnewood/111141749174218934
Work on making Congress better. Your not going to do better than Biden for President.
Grassroots Joe (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] It's not at all clear there are better options. Sure, there are a number of accomplished Democratic governors, Members of Congress, etc., but none of them have run a nationwide campaign, let alone a successful one. Nor have any of them run the federal government, nor moved multiple historic bills through Congress with razor thin majorities. Joe Biden has done all of that and more, and he has the power of the incumbency too, not to be sniffed at.
@joeinwynnewood My only member of congress whose seat is in question if the Senate seat held by the late Sen. Feinstein. I'd be interested in hearing who should replace her in 2025. Newsom is saying that he will not name any of the declared candidates to fill out the rest of her term so it will (hopefully) be an open seat.
If you think there is any reason to replace Rep. Jimmy Panetta you are welcome to say so, but he is the incumbent in a very safe CA-19 district.
How many Republicans flipped seats in CA in 2022?
Work on every one of those.
There are also 3 vulnerable Senators up for reelection in MT, NV & WI (Manchin is toast and good riddance).
And this year, really important state judge positions are up in PA along with several school board races to oust MAGA book banners. TurnPABlue.org is doing great work & needs vols & $.
Also Virginia needs to hold the state Senate & retake the state Assembly to protect the #FreedmToDecide.
JohnW@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 Same exact opinion I have.
chmps@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 alright. If the rest of the world needs to understand the US political system because of It's impact, let's just say yanks would do well to understand some of the politics elsewhere, which would help them understand that Democrats are hopelessly conservative. And yes, plz vote, but no, Obama was a conservative. Also, the US also had various socialist movements throughout its history who were squashed, so it's not as if "it just so happens" there's no alternative.
Like you ppl don't even social democrats and they're considered married to capital while handing out some crumbs in the EU. I didn't except to have to do this on Mastodon, but do you realize the US overall is off the charts in terms of conservatism, no matter which party?
Nothing there is news.
Literally, not news.
But the system was designed by an effective aristocracy and has stumbled—against massive pressure—towards some semblances of actual democracy over 2+ centuries. And is also captive to a ferocious and extremist capitalism, coupled with decades of willfully bad education.
It’s the hand we’re dealt, and have to play.
Which is to say, yes, we know. (And also, duh.)
@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 not duh. I keep stumbling across posts like this and it's low-key annoying. Systemic harm is evil too. Imperialism & colonialism is monstrous and inexcusable. The propaganda on US liberty with your poc population in prisons working for free is monstrous.
I can accept picking the worst of two evils or regular over batsh*it crazy evil but implying dems are flawed but necessary is kinda erasing a lot of people, who would still be in shitty positions even if all Reps disappeared overnight. It's OK to vote half seriously for Dems, but that's nothing mode than damage control, which is still important to do.
And also, it *sucks* to be actually left of center in a not-US sense, and having to struggle within the system here, as it is.
Accepting that one has to play inside the Democratic Party here to have any hope of having any impact or influence is maddening and depressing. And it is reality. Absolute reality.
I say that as someone who helped get not one, but *two* parties onto the CA ballot, and watched them become meaningless, or worse.
Sarah@McPatrick @StillIRise1963 complicit. Dems are complicit by virtue of the fact they are paid by the same people who pay Republicans.