Mastodawn

@libbymiller Yeh there seems to be some bonkers mentality that unless we make trainee's cheap then no-one will take them on

Same thing with min-wage and age – if a 16yr old is doing a min-wage role, why should they get less that a 25yr old doing the same role

libbymiller May 15, 2023

@andydavies I totes agree

coldclimate May 15, 2023

@andydavies and no free pies

@andydavies in 3 year's time his mate will be charging 300 quid a day. Getting £7 an hour is better than paying thousands for a training qualification, isn't it?

@Geoff and yet we have a shortage of plumbers…

@andydavies but we have nearly 2 million students in full-time higher education and paying through the nose for the privilege.

Ask kids why they don't want to be plumbers. Money is unlikely to be the reason.

@Geoff Student loans are a deferred cost that affect future purchasing rather than earnings power

That said degrees are too expensive mainly because many are too long and should be two rather than three years in lectures ideally with a placement the middle

From what I see of teenagers money is a reason why some don't want to do apprentiships

@andydavies then give apprentices student loans to top up their incomes: problem solved.

@Geoff Prefer to give them a sensible wage to start with

@andydavies but then you're expecting the firm to pay a full wage while they're training an essentially-useless employee.

@Geoff No I'm expecting the firm to pay the minimum wage while investing for the future of the company… no trained plumbers no future for the company

Other companies with apprentices do it e.g. daughter's mate did one with an accountant and if anything accountants are more useless that plumbers when starting out at least a plumbers mate can fetch and carry

@andydavies so you think plumbers should have to pay people a full wage and teach them the job at the same time? Expect to see less apprenticeships offered then.

If you treat an apprentice like a cheap dogsbody then you'll find yourself thrown out of the apprentice scheme pretty sharpish, fwiw. You're expected to do on-the-job training, and have proof that you've done it. It's no small task.

@Geoff other businesses pay their trainees a decent wage why not plumbers (or other who just pay the minimum apprenticeship wage)

@andydavies because there's a difference between an apprenticeship and someone just starting as a junior.

We're going around in circles. For some reason you think apprentices should be paid to gain their qualifications that will earn them handsomely in later life when every other path has to pay thousands to gain theirs. We disagree. Let's leave it at that.

thatdavemarsh May 15, 2023

@andydavies check in with both of them in 4 years. But good point. I’m not familiar with UK labour rates but 7/hr seems ridiculously low for any rate. That’s got to be very close to minimum rate. I’m guessing he got a pretty crappy 1st yr apprentice placement.

theothertom May 15, 2023

@andydavies @neil I’m not sure if it’s unfair TBH. The local firm we use for plumbing stuff bring apprentices from time to time, and (to me at least) they appear to be very much learning rather than doing.
The firm is effectively sending two people to do a job that one qualified person could do, so the person who’s learning transferable skills is choosing to pay for that training via lower take home pay.