DeanObeidallahThe ONLY Reason Fox News and the white right is cheering Daniel Penny for killing Jordan Neely on a NYC subway is because Penny is white and he killed a Black man. Period.
Maier Amsden@DeanObeidallah That's an oversimplification. I have little doubt that race is a big factor, but Neely being poor, homeless, and scaring people on public transit with a loud and desperate rant are other major contributing factors. Penny being military causes many conservatives to immediately stand and salute - a product of our longstanding nationalistic propaganda. Monday morning quarterbacking about Neely's criminal past is a big part of the propaganda excusing the act. There's lots to unpack.
Meme@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah Correction: Being WHITE military causes conservatives to stand and salute. They said absolutely nothing when the black military officer was pulled over and pepper sprayed by police.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah Sure, that's somewhat true - but military vs. scary homeless guy is a bit different from uncooperative military vs. police.
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah The privilege of being white, smh. Black always = scary and uncooperative. There literally are dozens of studies about white people's perception about the increased dangerousness of someone when they are black. Please do some research before making knee-jerk dismissals of the overwhelming impact of race on people's actions in this country.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah Desperate homeless people shouting on the subway is inherently "scary," especially after the mass-shooting on the subway last year. Police don't pepper spray people for cooperating. Please do some thinking before making knee-jerk assumptions about privilege's effects on my opinions. I'm not saying race wasn't a factor. I'm saying it's *a* factor.
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah Race is the overwhelming factor in both of these. Being "scary" is not a capital crime. And driving to a well-lit area in the aftermath of multiple high-profile police beatings of black men is not being "uncooperative". Privilege is exactly what you exuded - being able to minimize the outsized influence of race because stuff like that likely will never happen to you. I and millions of other people of color in this country unfortunately don't have that privilege.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah "Being 'scary' is not a capital crime." Did I say it was? Did I say race was only a minor factor here? Pointing out the seemingly obvious existence of other factors does not "minimize the outsized influence of race." I'm just trying to inject a little nuance into a wildly oversimplified discussion. I don't like oversimplifications. Oversimplification is the tool that some people use to justify this killing. It's what makes racism convenient for the racist.
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah Guess what? Sometimes things really are that simple. DeSantis and other conservatives villainizing the DA and fundraising to support a vigilante who killed someone on a subway is all about race. Their support of Rittenhouse was all about race. You don't have to introduce nuance just for the sake of introducing it. It is what it is.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah Nuance is always appropriate. We live in an infinitely complicated universe. Nothing is just one thing. There is a universe of causes in every effect. Opposition to BLM and related support of Kyle Rittenhouse is mostly racist, but it's also political - partisan, elitist, fascist. Vigilantism is key component of fascism. Bigotry is as well. So is a brutal unaccountable police force.
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah Again, the OVERWHELMING factor is race. You can talk about elitism, fascism and whatever else, but if the races were reversed, they wouldn't call a black veteran that killed a white homeless man a "Good Samaritan" and fundraise for him. They just wouldn't. But feel free to introduce all the nuance you want.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah Probably not - we don't have that comparable sitiation with the races switched. At the same time, Neely wasn't a well-dressed middle class Black man quietly sitting on the train. If he had been and Penny had attacked him, he would have been immediately charged and he wouldn't be getting the cover/ support he's getting. Race is not the *only factor at play here.
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah You keep missing the point (which is pretty clear in Dean's post) and trying to muddy the waters, but that's probably intentional. RACE IS THE ONLY REASON THEY ARE CURRENTLY DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
@Meme @DeanObeidallah I've been directly addressing Dean's point (and its shortcomings) from the start. You're refusing to acknowledge or address *my point, choosing instead to cite my privilege, undermine my intent, and repeat yourself (now in all caps).
@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah The point in all caps is the point you keep talking around. It's NOT multiple factors. If Penny were black and killed a white homeless man, they'd be mute, and you admitted that. There literally is no other "nuance" you need to add, but you wanna say things like if it were a quiet, black middle-class man it'd be different (which BTW is an affront to every quiet, black, middle-class man who's been Karen'd or harassed by police). Their response is due to race. Period.
Stanley Black-Decker@MaierAmsden @DeanObeidallah You're saying it's an over-simplification but none of the details you added modify what's happening or contradict the OP
So it's actually a good simplification that you just wanted to talk about some more
Actually wait hang on, did you open up by explaining what Neely did to warrant being killed?
Would you explain that the altarboy shouldn't have been spending so much time alone with the priest?