Panos Damelos (on vacation!)May 7, 2023
OK, let me try something.

Hello @Gargron! It’s the first time I’m addressing you, so let me first of all say a big THANK YOU for your contribution to the #Fediverse! The reason I’m writing this is that I saw that @mastodon recently announced quote posts - I think that’s a great decision! As you probably know, #Misskey and #Calckey already have an implementation for quotes, where the quote appears under the original post (like a comment, but flagged as a quote), and where the original poster is notified when quoted.

I don’t know how you intend to implement this feature in Mastodon, but since our users interact with each other, I thought it would be a good idea to suggest some direct communication with @syuilo (who originally implemented this in #Misskey) and @kainoa (our lead dev at #calkey), to make sure our implementations will be compatible. Even if there are concerns and things that you’d prefer to be done differently, I think that they should be discussed, and #Misskey and #Calckey should consider adjusting their implementations, so that they interoperate seamlessly with yours. The idea is, let’s see if it’s possible to find a common way to do this, so that users have a smoother, safer and more consistent experience, on such a sensitive issue!

I think that the widest possible interoperability in the #Fediverse is to everyone’s benefit, and it gives a better experience for every #fedizen, no matter what platform they’re on. Let’s try to work closer together on common features or problems and find common solutions - we’ve got this. ​​

Posting this publicly because I think that more cooperation between fedi platforms is something many people in here would love to see – myself included! Hoping this is received positively and in good faith. United fedi is best fedi =) ​​
Show threadHughsterMay 8, 2023

@panos @kainoa @syuilo @Gargron "where the quote appears under the original post (like a comment, but flagged as a quote), and where the original poster is notified when quoted"

If you want to quote a post you should be able to do so discreetly without dragging the original author into it, just as when linking to any other webpage.

Making people think of quoting as "reply in front of my followers" instead was a big part of how QTs became misused for performative arguments, dunks and ratioing.

Show threadPanos Damelos (on vacation!)May 8, 2023
@hughster @[email protected] @syuilo @Gargron I don't doubt that was your experience on #Twitter, but to be honest, being daily for several months now on a #Fediverse platform that has this implementation, this doesn't reflect my experience here at all. Quotes are used with good intentions and under a positive mood most of the time, and for the times that they might not be (as with any feature, like new posts or replies), well, that's why we have moderation.

I think #Twitter actually encouraged toxic behaviour. It's not the feature that's at fault, it's a specific moderation policy.
Show threadHughsterMay 8, 2023

@panos OK, but with every respect to you and your amazing work, you only have the tiniest fraction of the number of users Twitter does and they'll mostly be tech-orientated. You can't know how more mainstream users would use it. The only safe assumption is that they would use it the exact same way they used it before.

No amount of moderation can prevent the toxic misuse of "public reply" QTs, because almost all of the time what's said doesn't contravene any abusive conduct rules.

Show threadPanos Damelos (on vacation!)
@hughster Exactly the same can be said for possible toxic misuse of actual "public replies" though. If someone wants to write a harsh comment, they will just do it in a reply, even if they don't have the ability to quote. They can also boost their reply afterwards, for their followers to see. This is why we notify users when they are quoted, so that it isn't perceived as "behind the OP's back/say anything". In practice it isn't indeed that different from a reply, both displayed under the original thread, for both the OP gets a notification. So if you find this behaviour problematic, then I think that it should probably apply to replies too.
May 9, 2023 at 12:10amWeb
Show threadHughsterMay 9, 2023

@panos I don't think replying+boosting really works the same in practice, because a reply doesn't show the original post that's being criticised and so the criticism won't make sense on its own. You could also do it on Twitter since the start but nobody ever did, and nobody does it on Masto either.

It should be anyone's right to talk about another post behind the author's back! We can do it when we're criticising opinions in newspaper articles or blogs without bothering the authors after all.