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Zeb LarsonI feel like I see a lot of older liberals talk about how voter apathy is the enemy and not gerrymandering or voter suppression. It fascinates me. Do they just not want to admit to themselves that the game is rigged? I vote in every single election, but I live in a heavily gerrymandered state that lives under one-party rule and have no illusions about how powerful my vote is.
Alex Wild@Zeb_Larson always easier to punch down.
@alexwild Itās that somebody has to be doing something wrong; the system itself is fine, after all.
Agora@Zeb_Larson Both things can be true at the same time. In my community, a particular generation of men doesnāt bother voting. Yes, their apathy is probably linked to decades of voter suppression, but there is little effort to convince /motivate these men to show up. For example, Snoop voted for the first time in 2020. There are many men of his generation who donāt show up. Although, I donāt know how we will overcome the new voter suppression bills newly passed after 2020 and 2022!
@Agora Thereās a feedback loop for sure, and thereās also apathy (low voter turnout among young people has been a problem for decades). To your point, I donāt know how we easily overcome it. People in Ohio passed an anti-gerrymandering ballot initiative a few years ago, and it totally failed last year: Republicans just ran out the clock on statewide and federal maps until a federal court said elections had to happen, and theyāll do that every couple of years if they have to.
@Zeb_Larson we are screwed!
Gregory Hays@Zeb_Larson Considerable overlap with the group who will lecture you about how the octogenarian Democrats in Congress are doing a bang-up job, not since Napoleon or possibly Alexander the Great have we seen such master strategists.
@aristofontes And they definitely donate to that dipshit grifter who ran against Marjorie Taylor Greene because you gotta contest every single election.
@Zeb_Larson As one of those older voters (Gen-X) I've been saying the same thing for 30 years. From conservative folks I always hear, "well Dem back in the 1930s, 40s, etc., engaged in that behavior". And I'm like that doesn't mean the GOP should do it.
That means we should be and do better than the previous generations and not continue the practice. But deaf ears.
My liberal friends don't believe it will be a prob in the end. They think the wackiness of the GOP will swing things Dem.
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Catherine Schmidt@Zeb_Larson being an āolder liberalā, I know it is both. The percentage of Americans that vote in any elections is disgraceful. In the 2022 election only 49% of people voted in my county in Texas. Meaning 25% decided for the entire county who won.
@lillyfinch But what congressional district do you call in? Or state legislative districts? How competitive are they? Can the municipal races meaningfully exert political power? Here in Ohio, the state legislature was trying to block Cleveland from building bike lanes at one point because they just didnāt like it. And if everybody did show up, would they all be Democrats? Itās easily to fall into the trap of thinking that weāre the only ones on the sidelines.
@lillyfinch I know it still matters for state ballot issues, the senate, and a presidential election, but we need to have an honest conversation about limitations, too. And thatās to say nothing of voter suppression that keeps people away from the polls. Is it solely the fault of those who donāt vote?
@Zeb_Larson noā¦that is not what I was trying to say. I was just saying that as one of the old liberalsā¦I know it isnāt just votingā¦but it matters. I am in Texas where they are right now legislating the value of oneās vote away. The gerrymandering here is amongst the worst in the countryā¦..I get itā¦. Here in Texasā¦the last governor actually tried to stop towns outside of Austin from protecting heritage oaks from developers. He want to take down a heritage oak at the governors house.
@lillyfinch With you there. I'll always vote -- and I'm in a state where Republicans successfully stole congressional and state legislative maps, and so far as I can tell they'll do it again next year. (The good folks of Cincinnati did manage to flip one long-standing red congressional seat last year; proof that not all hope is lost. On the other hand...our state legislature is a pit).
Scott Jackson@Zeb_Larson @lillyfinch Some of these questions are self-reinforcing. The degree of electoral participation of your coalition is a pretty big factor in the district's competitiveness. And the historical competitiveness influences future campaign investment and attention from party hierarchies. The reason people emphasize getting out the vote is that it is the one factor that has the potential of changing the status quo. Causing a solid district to swing starts with a shift in turnout.
@scottmmjackson @Zeb_Larson Thanks. I am in Texas trying to at least, turn it purple. Gerrymandering is a real problemā¦and look what they just did to Harris countyā¦.but turn out is important as you know.
@lillyfinch @Zeb_Larson Originally from Houston myself. Had a political sign in my front yard set on fire as a kid and still have the burn scar from trying to put it out. It's been a long road to having any representation at all.
@Zeb_Larson Texasā¦.I am in Texasā¦ā¦.and a democratā¦.
@Zeb_Larson I don't know that the two beliefs are mutually exclusive. Gerrymandering and voter suppression means we're voting on hard mode, which means the nonvotes that are actually the result of apathy hurt that much more.
It also makes absolutely no sense to be discouraged from voting specifically because someone is trying to suppress your vote. You have to try to overcome it. It is an integral part of a broad-based resistance to a system that wants you to capitulate to its desire to make you a nonvoter and treat you like cattle.