Dr. Damien P. Williams, MagusApr 19, 2023

So it looks like both ChatGPT and Bard contain the same kind of gendered biases people have been trying to warn you about for at least 8 years, since word2vec was cutting edge.

Here's a screenshot of an interaction between myself and google bard, in which bard displays gendered prejudicial bias of associating "doctor" with "he" and "nurse" with "she."

Again, this is… This is old, basic shit, y'all. People have been warning you about this since GloVe. What are you DOING??

Or, more to the point, why are you NOT DOING what you know you NEED to do?

Show threadsynlogicApr 19, 2023

@Wolven AFAIK when these trained neural nets answer a question theyre making an inference based on a kind of probabilistic bet on what the best answer might be. based on the input data set it trained on

if one researchs the gender percentage breakdown of doctors and nurses certain trends are seen in the real world. one source I saw said that around 60% of doctors are male, and 86% of nurses are women. which also conforms to my own firsthand (anecdotal) experience dealing with medical folks

Show threadDr. Damien P. Williams, MagusApr 19, 2023
@synlogic Yep, and there is a LOT OF LITERATURE about why that's bad.
Show threadBryan S. WeberApr 19, 2023
@Wolven @synlogic right, but do you know of any techniques that prevent it from happening? I am fairly confident the answer to your question is that... there isn't a solution to this problem that is implementable.
Show threadsynlogicApr 19, 2023

@bsweber @Wolven I'm a programmer, and in broadstrokes know its possible to write code to augment the outputs of a NN inference such that it ensures all gender pronouns in the displayed text are "neutral" or "safe" or "ideologically correct" per any arbitrary set of rules

So it is possible, even if only via "duct tape". however, I dont think its necessary. And I dont think that exposing users to fact-aligned information is harmful. Ideology-aligned/censored information is bad as a general rule.

Show threadDr. Damien P. Williams, MagusApr 19, 2023

@synlogic @bsweber so you're cool with ideologically aligned information as long as it's been reinforced and systemically encoded into our societies, vut not ideologically aligned information that tried to undo it?

Or do you genuinely somehow think that the fact that fewer women are doctors is somehow "neutral?"

Show threadJobApr 22, 2023

@Wolven @synlogic @bsweber Funny enough in many countries the trend is strongly toward women either already outnumbering men, or outnumbering men soon because it's the older generation of doctors that is more male-biased, and they will eventually retire.

Wanna bet that the dudes who want "objective" information suddenly will have no problems with gender neutral descriptions of doctors in a decade?

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org//sites/87e18004-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/87e18004-en#figure-d1e24254

Home

OECD's dissemination platform for all published content - books, podcasts, serials and statistics

Show threadJohn V🏳️‍🌈
@vanderZwan @Wolven @synlogic @bsweber that's very likely the case... it makes me think of the history of women in sports and suddenly a women's division would be set up when a woman or all women team beat a man or all men team. I have stopped being surprised by the lengths people will go to maintain white males as the group in power.
Apr 25, 2023 at 1:45pmWeb