Sex Crazed SaltShaker of DeathHas there been any word on how Toprak Razgotlioglu did in testing today? #motogp
I saw he was 1.7 seconds slower than Pedrosa (fastest at test) and .7 slower than Crutchlow on the Yamaha. Very respectable.
Ben@dsmdexter I just wonder if Yam has put the cart before the horse and offered him Franky's ride when it seems like they're only just now giving Franky what he needs. Course, Franky can make them pay for that (as Lorenzo did Ducati) by having a strong rest of the season but, yeah.
@VersionBen6999
I would be surprised if Toprak would agree to anything at this point. The drawbacks to the Yamaha are apparent, and while there may not be a lot of contracts expiring this year, there has been an epidemic of injurieswhich could lead to a seat available that isn't known yet.
I would be surprised if Toprak would agree to anything at this point. The drawbacks to the Yamaha are apparent, and while there may not be a lot of contracts expiring this year, there has been an epidemic of injurieswhich could lead to a seat available that isn't known yet.
Nick 'The Viking'Yeah, this is not the time to be jumping on a Yamaha, nor the Honda.
I suspect we're going to have a brutal year for injuries. I'd be surprised if we see a full grid of contracted riders again this year.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter As someone who enjoys Marc's talent, I'm curious if Honda can fix their shit while he's still under contract. Because I think if they don't that Red Bull will facilitate a move to KTM, especially given that his current manager has ties there.
Unpopular opinion....
Marc will bonk his head hard enough this year he'll be done.
He can't control himself to just *ride* in the race and develop the bike. They can't develop now, as he's hurt.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter I don't necessarily agree? I think the bike is such shit (as evidenced by him missing so many races last year and STILL being the top Honda rider) that he's having to use his physical abilities to try and push it to (and past) it's limit, to just be able to compete, let alone win or fight for the championship.
He's readily admitted he's an asshole on the bike, but I don't think you can win championships and not be. Maybe Nicky excluded, but he only had 1.
I agree with that, the bike is bad and has been for a while, and yes he's had to over-ride it to do well.
He's a hard rider but his willingness to crash and gather up other riders into collateral damage, I'm not fond of that. He's entertaining to watch, totally opposite of watching Lorenzo, which bored me to tears.
He's spent the last couple years pretty much broken, so development has been poor, everybody else has been racing and getting faster while he's been rusting on the couch.
I've been watching moto racing for a long time and I've seen these career arcs many times.
I'm jaded for sure.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter See, I'm a more recent fan (2014) and my introduction to MotoGP was a clip of JL99 with Anna Vives. And damn him if he didn't drag me right in. I related to his personality. Still do, really. Started rooting for Nicky shortly thereafter. But as I'm prone to do (gogo Autism) made myself a student of the sport. Watched many old races.
Perhaps I'm not willing to watch another rider I'm rooting for hang 'em up yet. Either way, we'll see how it all plays out!
I'm not sure exactly when I got into MotoGP, I remember stumbling across a race and the first thing I saw was Gibernau hazing the back tire from just past the apex til he had it up straight. Probably '09.
Lorenzo was very fast, but so smooth he looked slow.
It's good you studied and watched old races, it's perspective.
I don't want MM to retire, but I don't want him to need a guide dog either.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter
Which as why, as much as I hated it from a "I want him to race forever" standpoint, I was glad JL retired when he did. He seemed legit scared of the bike after that back-breaker.
Equally, I can remember being ANGRY at Marc for trying to come back from that humerus injury after less than a week. Really, more so at the Doctors who encouraged it, because WTF? It's not like these guys get pensions. I'm glad he has a more cautious medical team now.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter and apologies, it's a bit after midnight here, and if I stop responding, it's because I finally convinced my body to fall asleep!
Fair warning
I'm very *not* fond of Alberto.
I savor every moment of Simon asking Alberto questions, I can hear Alberto squirming and his brain gears grinding trying to answer while revealing nothing and tooting everyone's horn that could possibly help them.
It makes me lol and it's probably wrong but it's my guilty pleasure.
I'm likely more opinionated and less well informed than David, and I'm an older git than him so beware. I don't want to squelch your enthusiasm.
No worries on the timezone, there's no schedule.
/fin
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter Since I can't sleep...
I have ZERO use for Alberto. Starting for his part in the Dani/Jorge fued. Then finding out how he pushed for Nicky to exit Honda. The way he's treated Dani in recent years. The way he/they were badgering/throwing Jorge under the bus after he got injured (and really, even before that).
Someone approved him to race + MotoGP medical declared him fit. Therein lies the issue. They'd have approved him to race with diplopia if Alex hadn't stopped it.
I'm OK with all the team principals save him. Some are more or equal revealing/personable/clear as he, but none are less and all make better decisions and project a more authentic persona.
MM is one of the hardest core racers and if he thinks he can race and it doesn't hurt enough to make him scream he will do it. This is way way advantageous to have such a fierce competitor on the payroll. It does *require* a strong handler/support team to keep him from making bad decisions. That didn't happen.
Motivation for MotoGP Medical to call a rider unfit is very small, and IMO they're in an impossible situation. Cannot be relied upon to protect riders.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter MM wise, it seems like he has a better team around him now. In that documentary he readily admitted that as soon as the Docs told him "go" that he very much would be. So I'm presuming his Madrid-based team is more cautious than the Barcelona-based Docs (Dr. Mir et al), or that he's perhaps learned SOMETHING from that whole humerus ordeal.
Medical wise, totally correct. Way too many riders who admit to concussions who were or are declared fit to race.
Honestly I thought the docs got steamrolled and/or paid off. No orthopod is going to put a plate on a completely broken humerus and willingly tell the patient it's 100% good to go. Counting on a plate to do anything more than hold bones in position to heal is insane.
For such a load-bearing situation they have rods and spikes and specific devices like a hip joint assembly.
You can put a couple layers of duct tape on the bottom of your bare foot and it's protected a little but it's not a shoe.
IMO the 'fit to race' is little more than a rubber stamp. I'm not wholesale denigrating the MotoGP med team, they do a tremendously hard job very well. But they get told who to approve.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter Truth, though I had *thought* they'd put more stringent medical policies in place to prevent Jorge's Assen Superman situation in 13 from ever happening again (especially considering he bent HIS plate at the very next race!).
I've had shoulder surgery, but it was arthroscopic, and basically breaking my collarbone and trimming it down so it stopped grinding against...whatever it was grinding against.
It's a sticky situation for sure!
I'm toast, more later on down the road!
It's just a few scenarios
Hurt, cant race anymore
Too slow, retired
Too slow, dropped
Don't want to race any more
Spies
Rossi
Abraham
Stoner
Maybe more ?
I'm pretty sure none of the doctors told him he could race.
I think that's something MM and his group decided on their own. I'm an engineer and I'm familiar with materials and such and the standard product that they used for the first repair isn't sufficient to replace the structural capability of a healthy bone.
I do not remember specifically who did the op, but IIRC it was one of the best in the world, and someone that's done lots of riders before. Never before do I remember this sort of event. If I were the doctor I would have been furious and demanded a public apology/retraction from Honda.
1/
@VersionBen6999 @nlarson830
I think that "more cautious" team is because the Honda sucks and the penalty hasn't been decided yet (as far as I know). If they thought he could win this weekend, their caution would be out of the window.
I think that "more cautious" team is because the Honda sucks and the penalty hasn't been decided yet (as far as I know). If they thought he could win this weekend, their caution would be out of the window.
It'd be a bad thing to allow MM to squirm out of the penalty on a technical.
He crashed, and got hurt, happens all the time.
Solo crash, no penalty.
Bonehead move, hitting 2 riders knocking one off and injuring them, penalty. It's not complicated to me.
IMO, Honda is teetering on the edge of a 100% disaster. I've broken that bone in my left hand. The thought of that injury on the right combined with big squeeze on the brake and a handstand on the bars, it's gonna suck.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter But now we're circling back to inconsistency again. Luca was overly ambitious, took out Enea, who's still hurt, and there was nothing done. Not that weekend, not after. Is it because he's Vale's brother? When even the other riders are questioning the lack of penalty, you need to wonder.
And while I don't entirely disagree, they left that door wide open for him. He apparently confirmed it only applied for Argentina, and only THEN signed.
The moral compass is broken and they never used it much anyway...
Flip side, even if they were 100% on top of it every minute it's still a very hard job.
@nlarson830 @VersionBen6999
Having Freddie Spencer making these decisions is a mistake. While he is, by all accounts, a great guy, he sees things through the filter of someone who was a coddled factory supported racer since he was a kid. So he would always get the benefit of the doubt.
Having Freddie Spencer making these decisions is a mistake. While he is, by all accounts, a great guy, he sees things through the filter of someone who was a coddled factory supported racer since he was a kid. So he would always get the benefit of the doubt.
@nlarson830 @VersionBen6999
I also want to say thanks for the discussion, it is nice to talk about something other than politics!
I also want to say thanks for the discussion, it is nice to talk about something other than politics!
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter I enjoy a good healthy discussion, even if we don't all agree (which we don't 😂). It's a refreshing change from the mudslinging and name calling on the bird site.
@VersionBen6999 @nlarson830
The penalties are not assessed in a vacuum. The rider's history is taken into account. I wouldn't have objected to a penalty for Marini, but I don't object to a non-penalty either. The wording was stupid, which is why MM will probably get out of it. But I wonder if Augusto would get out of it if it was on him. Honda/Repsol money speaks loudly.
The penalties are not assessed in a vacuum. The rider's history is taken into account. I wouldn't have objected to a penalty for Marini, but I don't object to a non-penalty either. The wording was stupid, which is why MM will probably get out of it. But I wonder if Augusto would get out of it if it was on him. Honda/Repsol money speaks loudly.
Yes, lots of that.
Furthermore, a double LL penalty isn't that big a deal. Some tracks that's be maybe losing one position.
I wonder, since animal trainers have widely acknowledged that modifying behavior with punishment works crappy, perhaps a reward system may be worth a try?
Alternatively....
Bump someone so they go off track, lose a row on your next grid position.
Knock someone down, 2 rows.
@nlarson830 @dsmdexter I won't disagree that Marc did wrong, and Marc deserves punished. But it seems like since Sepang 2015, he's held to a different standard, entirely too influenced by social media devouring a certain riders intentional poisoning of Marc's character - something Jack noted during the presser in Argentina (https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1023111/1/because-it-s-marquez-everybody-wants-put-knife).
Is he aggressive, perhaps overly so? Yes. Were Lorenzo, Rossi? Yes and yes.
@nlarson830 @VersionBen6999
Unpopular, but probably accurate.
My unpopular opinion is that Marc's genius talent was being willng to push past the thysical limit of the bike and having the reflexes to keep it from falling. But just as the field learned what's possible from Rossi, they have also learned from Marquez. Now Marc has to go beyond what his diminishing reflexes can save. He's 30 now, even though he has a baby face, time marches on.
Unpopular, but probably accurate.
My unpopular opinion is that Marc's genius talent was being willng to push past the thysical limit of the bike and having the reflexes to keep it from falling. But just as the field learned what's possible from Rossi, they have also learned from Marquez. Now Marc has to go beyond what his diminishing reflexes can save. He's 30 now, even though he has a baby face, time marches on.
@nlarson830 @VersionBen6999 And Honda and puig have bet the ranch that he could maintain his level above the field. That isn't working out. The Honda team has seen some major personnel changes, it will take some time for them to work out, if they will. Time is what Marc doesn't have. I hope he gets out before he ruins the rest of his life with another major injury.
Saw a headline, MM has missed 52% of the races since the start of 2020.
As a racer, you cannot stay fit and competitive missing half the races even if healthy. As a racing team, well, same. Why they thought this was going to work I do not know.
Time for him to go lay on the beach and sip some margaritas. He's worked hard, kicked some ass and had a bangin career.
100% accurate!