Eric BrandomAbout municipal socialism and reformism in pre-1914 SPD: "It is difficult on Sundays to speak of class warfare and revolution in a party meeting, when in the previous days one was finding common ground with one's liberal colleagues in the city council over the necessity for putting up lights in a dark city street." -- is that so?
WOID@ebrandom Actually it's bullshit. I see you got it from the entry "Municipal Socialism" in the Cambridge History of Socialism, which begins by arguing for Red Vienna as the model for Municipal Socialism. As far as evidence for this "dilemna," I know my primary sources pretty well. And it just isn't there. As for historian wankers--yeah, glad to show where this particular wanker got his masturbation fantasy, jerking off on other historians I could name. Contact me to discuss my fee.
@woid you're so angry! Why are you so angry?
@ebrandom Maybe I have a personal thing about institutionalized red-baiting?
@woid Is Stromquist very committed to that? His book is frustrating in a number of ways so far, but that part of it I hadn't really clocked.
@ebrandom You're right. It's not fair of me to dump on the author if, as you state, he's quotes from a 1960s book that may or may not be quoting someone from the pre WWI SPD, although the whole thing would be preposterous post WWI in Austria or Germany. And since I don't know who's being quoted, or when, or in what context (and not getting paid to do so) I can only point to the motivation behind the use or misuse of the quote, which is straight out of '60s red-baiting. I know whereof I speak.
@ebrandom
More polite. „Ich finde, Sie versuchen hier die Quadratur des Kreises. Es ist ziemlich unsinnig […] die Frage der Institutionen durch die Perspektive dieser Institutionen zu sehen.“ Paul Werner, „Debatte,“ in Das Rote Wien 1919-1934. Ideen Debatten Praxis (Wien Museum, 2019), S. 414.
More polite. „Ich finde, Sie versuchen hier die Quadratur des Kreises. Es ist ziemlich unsinnig […] die Frage der Institutionen durch die Perspektive dieser Institutionen zu sehen.“ Paul Werner, „Debatte,“ in Das Rote Wien 1919-1934. Ideen Debatten Praxis (Wien Museum, 2019), S. 414.
@woid that's very nicely put! Stromquist is citing from Gerhard A. Ritter -- I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't say precisely what he cites, if it's that old or not. I don't know Stromquist's work otherwise, but this book is large and feels more like a bundle of not-fully-realized monographs than, as Verso markets it, a "global history" -- that's my main frustration. Will develop more political ones once I've finished it.
@ebrandom Ha! That "Debatte I quoted" was myself and a bunch of perfectly nice community planners and such who, just like Stromquist and Ritter, couldn't tell the difference between Socialism and social services--in other terms, like S. & R. they were only too happy to confuse pre-1933 SDP with their own brand of "Socialism" -- or in their case, SDAP with SPÖ.
In the midst of the discussion I casually mentioned the influence of Red Vienna thought on 'May 68.
In the midst of the discussion I casually mentioned the influence of Red Vienna thought on 'May 68.